Home Theater System Build
- This topic has 112 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 2 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
-
As the title says, this thread will be to document my progress over time, of what I plan to be just a 5.2 “home theater system”.
Attached is a picture of my humble beginnings. I’ve so far built out two pairs of Tritrix MTM’s, and a C-Note center channel, all from parts express. Also, I’m running two REL HT/1003 subs. If I’m being honest, this is already more than good enough, and better than what the vast majority of people would ever care to have, but we’re not here because we’re reasonable people are we? Lol
As I type, there are already upgrades happening and in the works, namely 3x Soundstage 15’s and 2x sealed Ultimax 18’s. I don’t have space for tools and a workshop, as I have converted my entire garage to a jiu jitsu training area, so I commissioned a car audio speaker builder to CNC the parts for the Soundstage 15 enclosures. I’ll assemble them myself, and am slowly buying parts/components as I can and as they go on sale.
I’ve nearly completed one Ultimax. I’m stationed overseas in Australia, so I have to work around PartsExpress and USPS’s shipping limitations, and order everything individually for it to be able to be shipped. So far I have one enclosure assembled, and am waiting on the amplifier and two drivers, all of which I got from the Open Box deals on PE. I’ll probably go ahead and buy the second enclosure full price soon, just to be done with at least the subwoofer portion of the system, for now.
This build is going to be a slow burn. I can see that with each step forward, I add more and more steps for later, but if I was able to do it all at once it wouldn’t be nearly as fun.
*I’ve made no attempt to properly placing any speakers. Several upgrades are coming soon, and I just can’t be bothered knowing I’ll have to do it all again later. Furniture and TV upgrades are in the plans as well, but will likely be the last things I do.
-
My first Ultimax driver arrived yesterday, and geez! Videos don’t do just to how large these really are. I’ve had car audio systems for a decade and a half, but never any subs bigger than 15″.</div><div>
I’m at work for the next few days, so I won’t put the finishing touches on it until probably next Monday or Tuesday. Hopefully my amplifier is in by then.
*It’s not being mounted inverted, I just had it there while I was prepping wires
-
No update pics, but I’ve got a few bits of info on finds, orders, and what’s next.
Arrived: SA1000 amplifier
Incoming: 1x UM18-22; 3x enclosures for Soundstage 15’s (interstate shipping is slow as);
Ordered: all parts for 2 of 3 Soundstage 15’s
Ordering Next: Denovo 4ft^3 enclosure for UM18-22; Sinbosen FP9000 amplifier
I have the next 4 days off from work, and over those days I plan to finish the enclosure for the UM18 I already have in. Duratex isn’t cheap here, so I’ve settled for matte finish interior paint by Rustoleum. It’s called “Eclipse” (a shade of black), and it’s from their Milk Paint line. Rustoleum has a flat/super matte paint that they call “Theatre Black”, but it’s reviewed so poorly that I won’t bother mucking about with it. While I’m picking up the paint and brushes, I’ll grab some rubber feet and Earthwool stuffing as well.
-
I am so excited to see this build! I can’t wait to see the Soundstage 15’s built!
-
Luckily “WAF” is a non-factor here, though I wouldn’t blame her if she complained. Even I’m currently looking at them this like 😳 !
-
They look like they belong there. Quick question, is the woofer and waveguide going to be recessed?
-
Yeah, I’m going to do that myself. It was a bit of a pain in the butt going back and forth with the folks who did my CNC work, so I left “good enough” alone as it was.
*Also went with a double baffle instead of the extra depth ring behind the woofer. They explained it would be the same price, because making the ring alone would waste big chunks of MDF, so might as well put the whole piece to use. I already realize I’ll need to increase port length by 3/4″ to compensate for that.
-
That is awesome! i just wanted to make sure. I think the double baffle is a great way to do it. I almost did it that way myself. But I wanted to cut down on some of the weight which is why I chose the ring instead. Those are going to killer when you are finished!
-
I’m probably 1-1.5 weeks away from having two completed, depending on when the shipments get in. This is really getting exciting lol
-
-
Sub 1 completed!
Well, kinda completed. I forgot to buy Earthwool and stuff it.I s it worth the trouble of opening it back up and stuffing it?
Either way, now I’m REALLY excited for sub 2, and likely an amp upgrade down the road.
-
If you are happy with the way it sounds, then leave it. If not, then open it up and add some to it.
-
-
I stuffed all my speakers with polyfill I purchased from Parts Express: Polyfill. But none of my subwoofers are stuffed. I plan on building another subwoofer with twin 21″ drivers and will fill it with polyfill. I can then provide my own observation here. The GSG Audio Design has recently launched vertical standing cabinets than can take two drivers. Looks very interesting.
-
And, the day before I’m back to work, my CNC’d enclosures have finally arrived.
These are MASSIVE! I’ll casually build one every couple of days, and by the time I’m done the components should all be in.
Also, my second UM18-22 driver has arrived. I’ll need to order that enclosure sooner than later now.
-
Stacking them up and out of the way until I get time to sand them) confirms that I really, REALLY would like build plans for 215’s, 218’s or even 221’s.
The more I continue researching, the more I fall in love with the idea of having massive towers. I showed my wife pictures from a guy who has *MASSIVE* sealed dual 4×21 subwoofer towers, and she thinks it’s awesome and is on board with it being a long-term project for me.
But yeah, would there be any major issues with stacking these S15’s like this as 2 towers and wiring them down to 4 ohm towers? Please say that it shouldn’t turn out horribly lol
-
That would be a crazy awesome long term project. I personally wouldn’t mind making two more. Not that I really need them, it just would be nice to have. But then, I would have to buy another amplifier…..
-
It’s a never ending journey 🤣
-
-
All parts, for 1 speaker, except the single 4.3uF capacitor (somehow missed adding it to the order), have arrived. I’ll have to go to my local electronics shop and see if they have audio grade caps of decent quality. Honestly I’m a bit glad; it gives me more time to plan the crossover layout. If I don’t make them beautiful, it will eat at me like The Tell Tale Heart. Even with the Dayton kits I built in the past, I ordered MTG90’s PCBs from eBay. I absolutely know that they’ll be tucked away and probably never seen again, but I feel compelled to “do it right”.
Aside from that, I now need to buy a plunge router and some bits so I can recess the drivers and waveguides. Is there a better way to accomplish the task than that? If so, please let me know. I now understand it will be more simple to get it done during the CNC process, lesson learned. Oh, I also need to adjust the port holes diameter. I expected that they might be “off”, because of the imperial to metric conversion, so no biggie.
Incoming:
Ultimax 18 enclosure
Duratex (I bit the bullet, but I only had choice for a full gallon)
Components for second SS15
Need to order:
Components for third SS15 (Waiting for Black Friday)
Sinbosen FP9000 amplifier (more juice for subs)
T Nuts (Not necessary with double baffle, but why not)
***Considering installing both standard 5-way binding posts and Speakon as well, just to future proof the design… though I guess I could just make banana jack to Speakon cables in the future, if need be.
-
Rough draft layout? I’m pointing to where the 4.3uF cap would go…
-
That looks perfect
-
-
Adventures with the plunge router… This isn’t as easy/simple in practice as YouTube made it appear to be. I feel like I’m ruining one of these enclosures. At this point, I’m stopping for now.
Unless not recessing the drivers will cause MAJOR issues, I will skip that step.
Standing by, awaiting further guidance lol
-
I apologize, I was really sick last week with the flu. I am just getting back to the swing of things. Having said that, it will cause issues, how much, is hard to say. I did know of one guy who made some pretty extensive changes to the box and was not happy with the end result. He also flush mounted them. Having said that, you can always flush mount them and then later recess them if you are nto happy with them. I would strongly encourage flush mounting.
Let me know if you need help.
-
-
Updates:
I’ve received a few shipments over the past few days. I received the second box of components for SS15 number two, the second UM18 enclosure, and today I received my Duratex and roller.
Unfortunately, my package from PartsExpress came rather busted up and damaged. One of the 12.5ohm resistors was completely crushed, so I need to order another. I won’t bother making a claim through PE since it will take too long to arrive, but luckily I’ve found what I think is Dayton Audio’s Australian dealer, and can just order through them. That’s actually where I ordered the second UM18 enclosure from, but it obviously comes at a premium due to customs fees ($229 from PE vs $385 from Australia).
Biggest thing on the list is “repairing” the enclosure that I butchered with the plunge router. Not exactly sure what is ideal to use for this: wood filler, or maybe epoxy?
Follow-up from my last posts:
o Will not recessing the drivers create big issues? I understand there will be some refraction, but if we’re only talking about measurable differences (not audible, or barely audible), I’m going to skip the azz-pain and just surface mount everything for now.
-
Hey man, I apologize again for the late replies. Feel free to reach out to me for help. I’d be happy to help with some of these questions. That is awesome that you found the Australian dealer for Dayton. That is always a concern. Especially when you only need one resistor, lol. That is awful that it came crushed.
As far as recessing the driver, I have a few ideas that may or may not help. First, is a rabbet bit. You can select different bearings for the top and it will follow the inside cutout perfectly to get you what should be a perfect fit. If it is too small, just use a different size bearing.
Another option is to create a template and use a template bit. Here is a video on template routing: https://youtu.be/gVQ9VoigQoI?si=3yjUQuAUIOsmAGir
-
@unkownspectre Here is another option using template bits:
https://youtu.be/nqWPIf0lfBk?si=5ddC9IpeRZ3j5b5q
-
Finally one more on Facebook. This is what a lot of people do. https://www.facebook.com/groups/DIYLoudspeakerProjecPad/posts/838115913210914/
-
-
I’ve had a hectic past few weeks, and have barely put any time into finishing up the theater system, aside from UM18 number 2.
Currently only waiting for the components for the third SS15.
BUT, the current “issue” is the PartsExpress sale, and I have the itch to buy more subs! No wonder it takes people years to finish up their theater projects. I find myself constantly wanting to take more bites before I’ve even chewed what I’ve got already.
A pair of PSS555’s is calling my name, and I don’t think I’ll be holding out.
-
Lol! I know what you mean. I have been so tempted by a lot of what they have. So much so that I am trying my hardest not to look at the sales, lol.
-
-
I’ve sent you a message, seeking some clarification on one of the crossover schematic details
-
Holy mother of audio!!!
I’ve got the Left and Right “finished”, and WOWZERS! These are amazing!
That’s all I’m writing for now… I should be asleep getting ready for a night shift, but I powered through to get these operational
-
Okay, a bit of a better preliminary write-up.
***This ended up being far more wordy than I expected***
Firstly, this is actually only about 80% “finished”. A few huge things have popped of in my life, so getting to a good stopping point was far more important than getting them to 100% (drivers ARE NOT flush mounted, crossovers are not beautiful, and the cabinets are not as refined as I would like). Even with that said, these are AMAZING. I completed the front left, and immediately connected it to the AVR for a quick listen. The one speaker alone put the rest of the speakers already installed to shame. The clarity in the treble is beyond what I expected, and the mid-bass is clear and smooth. The 15″ PA driver REALLY pairs effortlessly with the two sealed Ultimax 18’s.
My temporary settings in the AVR, an Onkyo TXNR-696 (7.2 capable), is set to 2.2.1 (Front L/R, Surround L/R), and I’m missing NOTHING without the center channel when comparing to before.
BUT, all of this praise is short lived, because there is at least one SERIOUS issues, and I’ve gotta figure out how to troubleshoot and fix it. The left speaker’s compression driver has a FAR HIGHER output than the right one, so much that I had to adjust the volume level in the AVR to -7dB to balance it out with the other set to 0dB. I’m not sure what could cause that, or how to start troubleshooting it, but it’s on my list. My immediate assumption is that one or more crossover component is far out of spec. I hope that’s what the problem is, because I plan to reach out to MTG90 and have some nice crossovers built, and that would fix the issue straight away. In the meantime, I still have a spare set of drivers that I bought for the third speaker (which I will not build for this system as it stands), so I can try swapping out driver.
Now the inevitable… As amazing as these speakers are, I want more already! The form factor of the Soundstage 15 doesn’t make it very practical to build out a full matching set of 5, 7 or 9 speakers (most specifically, the center channel), so I need to now decide which design I will go with for the supplementary speakers. My initial thoughts are Audience 212’s, scaled down & sealed like monitors as Nick has described before, as the center and surrounds. BUT, the idea of Audience 215’s dances around my mind and I can’t shake it. There’s always using the Audience 212 monitor as a center, and BTS 15’s as the LR, while putting the Soundstage 15’s as surrounds… This is just ramblings for now; I have to pause on future builds for a few months while the dust settles. Oh, and I can’t fail to mention that I WANT MORE BASS! I assume the smartest thing to do first is upgrade my amplifier, but I know I will eventually have 4 subs (subs, not drivers lol) no matter what….. Very tempted to go ahead and build some Earthquake 21’s.
Either way, HUGE thanks to Nick for sharing your skills and passion with the community, allowing us to partake in this hobby at a far more fun and less intimidating price point than the manufacturers would typically allow us to. As much as I just “want more sound”, I also just want to keep building more. It’s my most fun hobby, after jiu jitsu of course. Also a huge thanks to my wife. She seems me having fun and enjoying myself, and she’s letting me run wild with it; she’s even getting into it herself, as a listener though. This is great because the dreaded “wife approval factor” just simply doesn’t exist in my home; she’s just as curious to see how far we can push this as I am, “so long as everything is all black” (She really likes the aesthetic of the speakers, and wants to see more, BIGGER speakers in the future)
******Yes, I know my room layout needs MAJOR improvements, but we’re looking at a home move soon, so I just won’t bother to fuss with it for now. From my research so far, it seems that building the speakers is the EASY part, and the real science comes in dialing in everything to the room.
-
That is awesome to hear! I am so glad you are enjoying them. I apologize for not being on lately. The Holiday Season is catching up to me. I have been spending way too much time trying to fix up the house before company comes.
That is not good that one of your speakers is louder than the other. Have you figured out what is going on? If not, let’s figure this out together. My first thought would be one of the resistors isn’t working properly. Most likely the one going to ground, isn’t connected properly. Or one of the solders on the resistors failed.
-
I’ll look into that. Very well could be the answer, and it’s a pretty darn shoddy job I did with the crossovers, but I was tired of allowing myself to drag my feet and decided to just get it done.
But I’ll tell you, They are FAR LOUD ENOUGH as is, and if fixing it means they’ll be even louder, I’m not sure I need to bother (I will, lol)
-
-
Lesson Learned/Note to Self:
In the future, I will make the rear panels of large speakers removable, or build in an access panel.
-
I am looking forward to whatever you build! THere’s a lot of great options out there. I am really excited about a new build coming up BTS 212? Eminence 212? I haven’t come up with the name, but it will be very similar to the Audience 212, but should surpass it, especially when used as a center channel speaker. But it will use an Eminence N314x-8 in an mtm configuration with two 12″ woofers. THe way it will be designed has the chance to really be a very versatile speaker. But I am still waiting for the N314x-8 to come back in stock. And I am waiting for the horn to be delivered. I am hoping to do the video in January or February, depending on stock availability.
-
That sounds great. Guess I will have more options to consider in the near future!
-
Hopefully, whenever the drivers come back in stock 😁
-
-
Spending today repairing the cabinet I jacked up previously.
-
Also, I have a mate with a ute and woodworking tools/skills who is picking me up in a few hours to buy the sheets of MDF and build out my Earthquake 21’s. My drivers haven’t arrived yet, but I can go ahead and get these built out ahead of time.
The bracing is pretty complex, and likely won’t turn out correctly without a CNC, so I’ll need to improvise my own bracing, unless Nick would be an absolute Bro and cut & ship me the correct bracing as in the build plans, lol! I’m partially joking, but if it’s feasible, I’d absolutely pay good money for that.
Lastly, just an update on my current amplifier/subwoofer situation. I’m still waiting for the repair shop to finish my amplifier, but movies are still AMAZING with just the Soundstage 15’s up front. I had a friend by yesterday, and we watched Logan. He’s not in to home theater or audio, but he was AMAZED at the sound experience. So much so that he wants me to build out a pair of Soundstage 15’s for him!
-
Once my Maslow arrives, it’s on!
-
Number 3 will be done today… Ports are installed, repairs to the baffle are done, I’ve done lots of sanding, and used Kilmat mass-loaded vinyl internally. Not sure if it will actually help anything, but I did the same with the previous two, and they’re very “dead” when doing the extremely scientific knock test lol
-
Another quick update:
I “finished” the third SS15, but obviously did something horribly wrong in the crossover assembly. When connected, there is almost no sound output, and by “almost no”, I mean barely audible when right next to the drivers in an otherwise silent room. Decided to go ahead and contact MTG90 to have three crossovers professionally assembled.
So for now, I’m still only running SS15’s as a 2-channel setup, but I have two DIYSG HT-12’s getting forwarded to me to build out as my surrounds. I’m still on the fence about the Atmos speakers right now… unsure if I will return the parts to PE, or just hold on to them until later. Also, the Earthquake 21’s will be worked on over the next week or two.
Currently researching subwoofer amplifiers, trying to decide if I want something with built in DSP, or if I’ll use an external miniDSP.
-
I’d like to know your thoughts (review) of the SS15’s vs the HT12’s when you get them completed. I’ve looked at both.
-
Will do, though it might be a while. I attempted to contact DIYSG to arrange shipping to Australia, but got no response (on two separate occasions). I ended up having to order the kits to a family member in the States, and they will have to forward them to me whenever they get time.
-
-
Delivery!
Crossover components for the atmos builds, and hardware for the Earthquakes
-
Got email confirmation from MTG90 that my crossovers are completed and being shipped out! He attached pics, and they’re gorgeous 😍
I imagine he will keep the PCB design on file in case anyone else ever wants to order any.
-
Looks nice. Do you have a photo of the back by chance? Thanks.
-
I asked Matt directly and replied quickly with a photo.!!!! He was very helpful. Those look really nice!!!
-
Yeah, from the pics, he did beautiful work. And it gives me peace of mind knowing that I won’t be hiding a tell-tale heart in my speaker cabinets lol
-
-
Received the crossovers from MTG90 about a week ago, and installed them in my SS15’s. All three work now, and there are no more level mismatch issues.
Also, I’m about 90% done with the crossovers for the Eminence Atmos/surrounds. I just need to grab some speaker wire and terminals later to finish the point to point wiring, and have connection points. Probably going to build the enclosures for them soon, hopefully tomorrow.
My HT-12s have been forwarded to me, just awaiting arrival.
Lastly, I’m torn on what to do for the PSS555’s. I’ve got the Maslow CNC ordered, and can just wait for it to get here, and build the enclosures exactly to spec, as per Nick’s plans… But it would also be awesome to make massive ULF Sonosubs, though I have no way to model that myself.
-
Early morning work…
I posted a video a few weeks back of a YouTuber who modded a circle binding post cup to also have a Speakon adapter in it.
Well, last night I realized I had a pair of binding post cups, so I did the mod myself. I just figure it’s a small way to future-proof my builds, so no matter which cables I need for my AVR or processor, the speakers will be able to accommodate.
-
Crossovers for my Eminence Atmos surrounds are completed.
Took far longer than I expected. I can solder, I can read schematics, but it’s always a bit stressful. I know I can always use de-solder and fix whatever mistakes I make, but still….. Guess I just need to build more speakers to get my confidence up!
Also, I’m super proud of the tiny side project, the multi-terminal binding post cups. Simple task, but they turned out well. I used a 22mm spade drill bit to make the hole, and sanded it to the (nearly) perfect size for the Speakon connector to SNAP! firmly in place. AFTER putting some super glue to secure it. Then I drilled holes for the screws (didn’t have the right size black screws on hand). I put dabs of super glue on the screws, but wasn’t fully confident that it would be good enough, so I mixed up some JB Weld, and applied that to the exposed one nds of the screws. Now that it’s dry, I know they’re not going ANYWHERE, though in the future I will likely use nuts and bolts. Finished it off by wiring the 1+ to the positive screw terminal and the 1- to the negative, and VOILA!
Haven’t bought the wood to make the enclosures yet, but I will go ahead and test the drives using the crossovers.
More to report later!
-
***Full disclosure:
My crossovers were jacked up. Well, halfway jacked up.
Upon initial testing, only the HF driver produced audio. I was worried that my woofer was dead, so I checked the other woofer, and got the same results. Since the likelihood of BOTH being dead is pretty low, I knew something was awry in the LF portion of the crossover.
I re-checked all connection points to ensure I had good solders, and as best as I could see with my eyes and a magnifying glass, all was good there. So, I referenced back to the schematics, and saw that I made a few mistakes in the signal path. After some surgery and rewiring, all is well.
Lesson learned, and confidence increased as a result, lol!
-
Trust me you are not the first to do this. I actually had this happen with a brand new tweeter. In this instance though, it was a brand new capacitor that came bad. COmpletely bad. It was dead, so it did not allow any sound to go through it. A quick replacement cap later, and all was well in the world.
-
-
Did you ever receive the HT12s?
-
They’re otw, or, at least one is. Should arrive in a couple of days.
In the meantime, I’m almost done with my Atmos/Surrounds, and my Maslow should be shipping soon as well. Also, I found a guy online selling a pair of 88-Specials, and am trying to close the deal on those.
There’s no world where I need this many speakers, but I’m just getting into the hobbies (home theater, and esp. speaker building), and I’m having so much fun!
-
-
You’ve been busy. I am on a similar path and have been following. I’ve been on the fence with Stg15 vs Ht12s for my fronts. So I am curious what you think of then with what will be first hand knowledge of both. I’m also looking at others that are similar.
-
Sound comparisons aside for now, I’ll say that unless you’ve got heaps of space in your front sound stage area, skip the SS15’s. They’re massive, but short and stout like Lord of the Rings dwarves. Too short to be towers, but kinda too bit to be on any typical stands. Having one for the center channel is especially wonky if you don’t have a projector with an AT screen
-
-
I do have a 120 inch AT screen and room is 14.5 ft wide. So they’ll fit nice just outside the screen. If i went bigger screen they’d probably have to come inside the screen. It would probably work out to have them sit on or above sub(s). I’d like the center to be not as deep. That way I could keep the screen closer to the wall. I believe I can redo the box as long as internal volume is the same. Ie taller vs deeper with same width.
The sub box is 20 deep x20x36. So I can lay it on its side for 20 inches tall or stand it up for 36 inches tall. I’d prefer it to be on it’s side below the screen. But worst case I can just move my screen out 24 inches. I plan on the 20 to 24 inches below the screen to be subs/equipment self. So sub/equipment can come out more but still keep the screen closer to the wall. So I’m still in the build stage of that but do have it temp setup.
-
Boom!
These things are GREAT!!! Tiny tanks… Heavy AF, and man do they pack a WALLOP!!!!! My wife says they sound so good that it’s a shame to put them as surrounds in the living room, so I’ll definitely be making a more pretty or refined looking pair for dedicated music listening.
-
First HT-12 has arrived!
-
You’re an old pro now! You should have that put together in no time. 😀
-
Only reason I haven’t is because I want to buy a pin nailer first. I’ll definitely have the crossovers done in the next few hours though!
-
-
The one HT-12 is done, but it’s basically useless until the second one arrives.<div>
It’s a helluva speaker. If I got HT-12’s before building the Soundstages, I wouldn’t have thought to build them. Not that it’s better, but it’s far more than enough. But, I have both, and I choose the Soundstages overall. They have a “thicker” sound, because they’re pretty much full range. Outside of that, the only other real difference I notice is that the Soundstages have more overall output. Both are winners though. The HT’s will make epic rear surrounds, for sure!
About to head out now to grab wood for my PSS555. I’ve decided to keep it simple, and not go the Sonosub route. Instead, I’m just making a double sized Earthquake enclosure to house both subs, since 1) I’ll be wiring them down to 4ohms, and 2) I already plan to get two more anyway, so 2x doubles is more appealing to me than 4 singles.
</div>
-
Thanks for the updates. I think you just sold me on the STG15.
As you listen more can you comment on the following. I know its not fair as you only have one HT12 at this point. But, if you were to use one as a center.
On the differences, do you find either of them to be bright. Or is one “brighter” that the other? One thing that worried me on the STG15 was the Titanium tweeter. That was based on Titanium CD in general and not this JBL (I’ve seen some great reviews for the JBL tweeter.). I’ve seen some reviews of the CD used in the HT-12 as bright. So, that has been my hesitation with it. I’ve had some old Klipsch that were harsh and don’t want to go back down that road.
What are your thoughts in the 1000 to 2000 range on them? That covers both their xover points. Do you see any issues in that area with either?
Which would you say is better with dialogue (Male and Female)?
Which would you say is better with music?
Which would you say is better with depth perception? i.e. if a door opens that is supposed to be in the back ground does it sound like that.
Those are some of the things that usually stand out to me when I listening.
A side note, the HT12 has the 15 inch waveguide. But, based on your photos the “inner area” looks about the same as the JBL Dayton clone. Just ballparking the size vs the 12 and 15 inch woofers.
-
The HT-12 seems to be brighter, but that could be because it lacks the thickness and deeper bass that the Soundstages have.
To get a better grasp on dialogue I would need to go in later and change my AVR settings to maybe an 80hz crossover point, rather than having it at full range… remove the extra bass for a more fair comparison.
As far as dispersion and imaging, the HT’s take it away. The baffles are the same width, but the SEOS horn is about 2-3″ wider than the horn used in the Soundstages, and it’s VERY noticeable when listening, especially if you’re not stationary.
For output, the HT’s are impressive, but don’t hold a candle to the Soundstages. They flood my room with sound, and the woofers barely move at all. I don’t know just how much they can put out, frankly because I think my hearing will give way before they do.
I hope my explanations suffice. I still don’t have measurement equipment (that’s the next rabbit hole after I finish my builds), and don’t speak all of the audio reviewer jargon.
All in all, you can’t go wrong with either one. I would say the major 2 determining factors between choosing one or the other would be 1) size/space limitations, and 2) get the Soundstages if you want more midbass/bass
-
Thank you that helps a lot.
-
That is a great comparison. I appreciate hearing things like this. I can’t wait until you have everything hooked up. Once you do, you will not need to go back to the theater.
-
-
In progress…
Note to self, plywood is far more messy and annoying than MDF. I prefer dust over splinters, any day of the week.
-
Interesting! After building 12 speakers and 2 sub woofers with MDF, I am ready to build my next with Baltic Birch Plywood. Maybe a case of the proverbial “Grass is greener on the other side” 😀
-
After some research, it’s very likely that I was using the wrong kind of blade on my circular saw.
-
-
Whew!!!
This is, visually and sonically, RIDICULOUS!!!
-
Now we know what happened to your hair 🤣
-
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I haven’t put them through the paces yet… Played a could of songs streamed from YouTube, that’s it. I called out of work today (because my back is COOKED), so I’ll be watching a couple of movies in the next few hours 😏
Lessons learned:
-For long cuts or large projects, 1cm off or crooked on one end makes a huge issue at the other end.
-Test fit your subs in the cutout BEFORE attaching the baffle.
-Measure once (length), measure twice(width), and then MEASURE AGAIN (diagonals)!!! It’s far easier to get it right than it is to “fix” it later.
-Tools don’t make it easier if you don’t really know how to use them
-
-
It’s been a little while since my last update, because not much at all has happened since completing the dual 21″ sub… I’ve just been enjoying movies, and planning the next moves. The latest and greatest equipment orders are as follow:
-Sinbosen FP14000Q amplifier (220V, Australian plug)
-Sofabaton X1S universal remote
The one decision that I’m going back and forth on the most is in regards to which AVR or separates to choose. There are so many options, so many price points, so many pros and cons for each. But after having just purchased the FP14000Q, I’m thinking if I like the performance of it, I’ll go with a nice-ish pre/pro, and power everything except LCR and subs with multiple Sinbosen K4-600 4-channel amplifiers. Just thoughts right now though.
Current plan moving forward is to finish building my speakers (though more subs may come later lol), then getting electronics, THEN furniture, and then lastly a large television or more like a nice ultra short throw projector
-
Interestingly enough, I just got a sofabotn X1S. I plan to have a review out next week. You’ll have to let me know what you think of it.
Out of curiousity what Receivers/Seperates are you thinking of? I know @Nate and I just went through this thought process as well. Not sure if we can help, but maybe….
-
I currently have an Onkyo TX-NR696… Obviously I would love to go full-on “Gucci” and dive right into a Marantz AV10, Anthem AVM90 or something like that, but I realize that’s a massive leap in cost an performance that I would likely not even have the proper understanding or appreciation of. Like I said in my first post, I’m in no rush to get this project to completion, so upgrading over time is actually quite fine by me.
What I’m currently looking at are the offerings from Tonewinner and Emotiva (the BASx line), though that very well could change also. My wife is in Japan visit family for the next few months, and if I’m able to get one of the Japanese brand AVRs or some separates for far less, that’s what I’ll be doing.
-
-
Pardon my language, but I just started watching Edge of Tomorrow, and HOLY SHIT!!!
So I forgot to update that I acquired a second SA1000, and it’s just arrived. I have the Crust Buster (that’s what I’m calling the dual Earthquake) on one, and the Ultimax’s on the other… Tile floors, plater over brick walls… According to most forums, it should be very difficult to “energize” this room, but I’m not over exaggerating when I say everything in here vibrated! I ran it back a few times because it was just AMAZING!
This is very interesting… Non-ideal amps and the cheapest 21″ subs on the market… I’m 100% sure I don’t need anymore bass, but now I’m super excited for my FP14000 to get in. And also can’t help but wonder what dual Krakens or NSW6021’s offer that these PSS555’s don’t have?!
***Quick update… I played the scene again and went outside to check how much sound makes it out (I hadn’t checked before)… The bass rattles our security cameras and flood lights mounted on the eaves 😳😳😳
-
Lol! And that is how a bass head was born!!! It is amazing when you feel all that bass. Even better when you don’t hear the subwoofer in a traditional sense. I can only imagine how amazing that is. Try not to knock don’t your house while testing 🤣
-
<div>I’m just trying to max out the “cheapest” systems upgrades possible so I can have the peace of mind to move on to other aspects of the system. Everything I’ve seen in forums says that in order to get noticeable increase in subwoofer output, you need to double amplification or number of drivers to net +3dB. So from 1 to 2 woofers, and then 2 to 4 woofers seems like a reasonable upgrade when thinking about the cost to performance ratio. The next appreciable upgrade would be going from 4 to 8 woofers, and I’m not willing to foot the bill for that just for +3dB.</div>
I’m tempted to drop ship one to you just to get your opinions on it. I don’t think I’ve come across any forum posts (and definitely not a video) comparing real in-room response of the PSS555 to other 21″ drivers.
-
-
Special delivery!
-
I just got the X1S as well. Interestingly enough, I was just at Axpona and guess who I ran into? Vance Dickason! He ended up signing copies of his book as well. It was really cool to see.
-
-
The beast has arrived!!!
But, I have no idea what to do with these dip switches.
-
So, where do I get the numbers to extrapolate the information needed to set these dip switches? Maybe TVOR could point me in the right direction
Also, another delivery!
-
Being able to RTFM does help explain how to use these DIP switches.
Let’s start with Gain/Bridged mode. Best I can do is point you toward any number of Car Audio guys, such as DIY Audio Guy, on how to use the gain settings. You basically start at the lowest setting and go up until you reach the optimum setting.
Obviously Bridged does just that, bridges L+R into MONO for 4x’s the power (Generally).
I do not know what the 5th switch does.For the VPL side, it suggests (to me) that you will need to do some basic math based on your speaker’s wattage rating and Nominal Ohm rating. For reference, the way you calculate power at the speaker is VRMS^2/Nom.Ohm=Watts
For example, 25^2/8=78.125W being delivered to the speaker.
So, to do what you need is to rearrange things a bit and go W*Ohm=SqRt(VRMS^2)
Using the above example, 78.125*8=SqRt(625)=25VLook at the ratings on your driver / speaker system to get your wattage rating, then do the calculations and select a voltage via DIP switches to keep the max amp voltage at or below your speaker rating.
The Soft/Hard switch tells me that you select between limiting slopes for the max VPL. Obviously soft is a gentler roll off while Hard is much more steep.As the manual states. The current limit will kick in when too much power is drawn from the Amp. If you find that it kicks in too often, lower the VPL voltage until the cut-outs stop.
-
“For the VPL side, it suggests (to me) that you will need to do some basic math based on your speaker’s wattage rating and Nominal Ohm rating. For reference, the way you calculate power at the speaker is VRMS^2/Nom.Ohm=Watts
For example, 25^2/8=78.125W being delivered to the speaker.
So, to do what you need is to rearrange things a bit and go W*Ohm=SqRt(VRMS^2)
Using the above example, 78.125*8=SqRt(625)=25V”THIS is what I was looking for, and didn’t know where to find it (It wasn’t in TFM lol). Thanks a million!
-
You’re welcome.
A million’s too much, I’ll settle for a hi-five. 😁
-
-
Quickly tried using my FP14000 earlier. After connecting my Crust Buster (That’s what I’m calling the dual Earthquake, btw lol), I got no audio output. There was the slightest of sound (kind of a hum or buzz), barely perceptible, coming from the sub, so I know something was flowing through the signal path. I also made the mistake of unpluggin the subwoofer from the amplifier while it was powered on, which gave me a LOUD thump, so again, I know something is flowing through the path.
I’ll be spending the next few days trying to figure out what’s going on with that.
As far as updates on incoming goods, I happened to see a pair of ButtKicker BK-mini-LFE’s in the Open Box section on PE, and went ahead and snagged those, because “Why not?”. I’ve also got an ART CleanBox Pro level converter on the way as well. Apparently, the sub out signal from the AVR needs to be boosted going to the pro amplifier? Or at least that’s what I’ve picked up reading through forums.
I’m also starting to look at projectors. The Formovie Theater ALDP 4.0 UST is my current front runner, but I’m not set on anything yet.
***I re-connected the Crust Buster to my other amp after the loud thump, and it still works
-
Speakers confirmed working afterward. ✔️
Amp making slight buzz/hum with speakers connected, sounds like the amp section is working and you are getting high gain noise. ✔️
No music/program sound. Check your input selector/connections and check that wherever you are getting that input from is setup correctly. Also make sure track has content going to that input.
After that, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
-
So, I’ve done more poking around and testing, and it DOES function. The problem is that I have to go into my AVR settings and boost the bass as high as possible to get any appreciable output. This is what I suspected would happen, which is why I have already ordered the ART CleanBox Pro to boost the AVR’s sub out voltage to the level that the amplifier needs it to be at.
I’ll keep using it for now, as is. Should be rolling full tilt in about a week or so
-
Have you played with any of the gain settings on the FP14000? I find it hard to believe the LFE is that low on the AVR that it wouldn’t drive the amp to some useable level. Do the manuals tell you the LFE output and Amp Input levels (provided/required)?
-
For my AVR I found that the RCA subwoofer preouts are 1 V, compared to something like a Marantz AV8805 which has balanced XLR preouts pushing 2.4V.
I’m still searching through the FP14000 manual for input sensitivity requirements.
-
1V should be enough to make at least conversation level bass output. Hmmmm…
-
With all settings turned up, I get PLENTY of bass. Just seems as though it shouldn’t take that to get decent output, which is precisely what you’re saying.
-
I had a moment where I could download and look at the user manual and specs. Yeah, that’s a hard thing to find there.
Gleaning from the inputs on the back, it is looking for a balanced input, which is generally 2V – 2.4V. That is why your unbalanced output @ 1V is weak until you crank everything to 11. You can either use the booster or use a true unbalanced to balanced converter, which would give you the boost by default.
-
Unscientific observation:
With my AVR settings back to standard, I’m getting heaps more bass, even with the attenuator turned down to -10dB on the amplifier (it was at 0dB before).
BUT, now I’ve got a ground loop hum, and it’s not “slight”.
-
Fixed the hum by buying a new power supply. Initially I had the factory power supply (120) plugged into a converter to get 220. I decided to go grab a 220 power supply to see it that would fix the issue, and it did.
Again, output is insane.
-
-
More goodies…
I’ll do some testing and see if I want to order more later
-
Holy cow! You are not playing around!
-
It’s becoming increasingly obvious that this “hobby” can get WAY out of hand, really fast…..
But, i have drawn a line in the sand for being done buying and building speakers and subwoofers. Get the last of my bass shakers, amps to power them, and lastly is waiting to see how the Iso SuperSub project turns out because I’m kinda REALLY wanting a pair of those lol
-
-
Something I’ve known about, but not addressed, is that there are air leaks around the drivers in my Dual Earthquake subwoofer. Since the only aesthetically pleasing way to address this is to remove the drivers and add gasket (hopefully), I’m going to go ahead and swap out the PSS555’s with a pair of these LionAudio 21’s.
It’s an Aussie branded driver from one of the Made in China manufacturers. The PA guy at the local music store told me about the brand and says they’re what he’s been using for the past few years. Specs look great, and he says he’s not blown a driver or had any issues with defects, so for the price ($454 USD ea., with free shipping) I’m willing to give it a go. This will free up the two PSS555’s currently in use to go with my other two new ones for the eventual dual Iso21’s (or whatever Nick decides to call them) that I want to build
https://lionaudio.com.au/products/21inch-2100w-rms-subwoofer
-
They look like, and are spec’d similarly to the Dayton Vortex (now discontinued), but are 8Ω, have slightly more wattage handling, and more XMAX.
-
-
The next phase…
-
I have some time off, so I’ve hooked up my HT-12’s.
The step up from 3.1 and 5.1 is so much more drastic than I expected!
I can’t wait for my 3D printed Maslow parts to get in so I can start building stands for the speakers, and get going on proper placement and some acoustic treatments
-
I’m still slowly chugging along, making improvements here and there.
Recent purchases are 16x Dayton BST-1 shakers, and I also got a sweet Yamaha PX10 amplifier. Restock items from PartsExpress.
The Yamaha will allow me to simplify my current electronics a bit, as I will pull my 2x Dayton SA1000’s and replace them with it. Also, it has built in DSP so I can pull 2x Dayton DSP-LF’s. But, the amps and DSPs will be utilized for the bass shakers in the future.
Upcoming:
About to start work on 4x sealed PSS555’s. I got someone to model them for me, and they came up with this design below. At a “perfect” QTC of .707, they only need 126L, which makes them quite a bit smaller than the original Earthquake enclosure. Also working with the same person on the Iso idea. I’d say we’re about 90% there, but it’s a bit tough considering a few design choices I requested: No visible motor being the biggest one
-
Dropped off the PX10 to the electronics shop. They’re going to convert it from 120V to 240V.
I’m getting this done because I fried it by accidentally plugging it in to 240V… It happens to the best of us, I guess lol
-
Oh man, that bites.
-
I didn’t get to hear a single sound through it lol!
Another reason to “simplify” and tidy up my electronics
-
Somehow, I think you will be checking ratings on the backside of devices prior to using, from now on.
Not a dig, just an observation. If it were me, I’d do the same. -
Double and triple checking!
I’ve been abroad using 120v electronics for the better part of 17yrs… the last time this happened to me was in Germany 2008 or so.
I’m stoked that it’s able to be repaired, and converted
-
-
More overkill…..
16x BST-1s on a sofa is far too much, seriously. But, what’s done is done lol!
-
Matrix bracing and baffles for 4x more PSS555-8 Earthquakes.<div>
After that, I’ll be getting started figuring out what to do with the mountain of 8″ers. I’m thinking possibly something a long the lines of 2 dipole towers, and using them for my eventual 2-channel setup.
Also, I’m waiting on a pair of NX3000Ds to be delivered, which will power them. I got them on a clearance sale for roughly $350ea, delivered.
Hope all is well with everyone… This place is all but dead lately, aside from the spambots.
</div>
-
2 of 4 are all but finished, and I got in the amplifiers.
Time to start researching and reading up on taking measurements and applying DSP…
-
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.