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lightwriter62
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08/09/2019 3:42 pm  

Hello all, 

After my last post about the class a amp, and considering your feedback, I thought I’d look into class d amps, and I’ve come up with a plan. I’m building a pair of DIYSG Titans, which can take a lot of power, not that they need it, But, having an under stressed amp, capable of handling any musical transient, with tons of headroom, sounds good to me. 

So, I’m looking at the ICEPower 1000ASP’s, as two monoblocks, it would be a little pricey, but on paper it looks good. I’d like to use a 1000A, and build a stereo amp, but I think I’d have to source a bigger chassis plus all the parts that come with the Ghent kits. 

So, what are your thoughts? Has anyone built a ICEPower 1000 amp for hifi? Should I consider doing a stereo amp? 

Thanks in advance amp, Kent 


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Speaker Builder
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08/09/2019 5:35 pm  

I've written about 3 drafts of this reply. None is going to come off as nice. But I have to admit that I'm afraid you are making some very expensive mistakes here.  Rather than take you through technical discussions of why bigger is not better and more powerful is simply more dangerous, let me tell you about my home system...

My home system has been heard in the lobby of the apartment building I live in... 6 floors down and 100 feet along the hallway.  I'm using a pair of bookshelf speakers and a 35 watt per channel amplifier.  I seldom turn it up more than 1/4 volume and rarely does it get over 5 watts per channel. And it does everything I need, very nicely.

system

The average 12 x 20 living room or rec-room needs a couple of 6.5 inch woofers and an amplifier producing about 30 to 50 watts per channel, for good comfortable sound.  

Yes, DIY speakers is a great hobby. I've been there and done that more than once, loved every minute of it.  DIY electronics is even more rewarding when you see a project you designed come to life.  So please do dive right in....

But, also please let me suggest that you might want to concentrate your energies on more reasonable systems... Well, unless you've just gotten the contract to do the sound reinforcement at a major theatre or sports stadium, that is. 

 


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123Toid
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08/09/2019 6:06 pm  

@lightwriter62 sounds like a great project!  I can't wait to hear what you think of the Titans.  I would e-mail Ghent about a chasis that would carry the Ice Power 1000ASP and 1000A  When I spoke to him via e-mail the video I shot on how to make a HiFi Amplifier, I recommended him make some that could house something like you're referring.  He told me he had some, but not on the website.  Now you might need to drill a few holes, to mount the board, I am not sure.  But the rest of it should be there for you.  It is definitely worth a shot, before buying two 1000ASP boards.  


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lightwriter62
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25/09/2019 3:20 pm  

@douglas-blake

Hi Doug, sorry for taking so long to get back to you, life got in the way. I appreciate your concern, but as you can see, I am building speakers rated at 1000 wrms, and I live in a house, it is a great-room design, my listening area is approx 25"x 30", with a 14" vaulted ceiling. I currently have a pair of Klipsch Epic CF-3 v1, powered with a Adcom GFA 555 mkII, plus a pair of Velodyne subs, it sounds ok, but unfortunately I belong to an audiophile society, and have had the privilege of hearing systems that are mind blowing, really. And one day, after returning home from one of our meetings, I made up my mind to do something about the sad feeling I had listening to my system after hearing my friends systems. And since I don't have the means to get that kind of gear, I'm going about it on the cheap. I have a pair of the Adcom amps, that I am planning on using bridged, but they are vintage, and I really like the idea of having nearly unlimited dynamics, hince the ICEPower 1000ASP amps. So, for less than $1200, I'll have about 800 wrms into 6 ohms, which is some overkill, but in terms of dynamic headroom, not really, considering, every three decibel increase in volume requires a doubling of power. Not to mention, I like to turn it up once in a while. 😉

Thanks again, Kent


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lightwriter62
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25/09/2019 3:26 pm  

@123toid

I have a technical question for you, I am planning to build two ICEPower 1000ASP mono blocks, I know its more money, but I like the idea of mono blocks. my question is, both Parts Express and Ghent sell cables for these amps, do I need just one set? Which one? Or do I need both?

Thanks in advance, Kent 

P.S. Should I get the Ghent kits with the RTX modules?


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Speaker Builder
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25/09/2019 3:48 pm  

@lightwriter62

No worry about the delay.  

My concern was that you might be planning to jam all that into a typical 12 by 20 living room... but it looks like you've got the big room such a system will need. You wouldn't be the first guy to go big and brutal only to regret it later... 😎 

Before you settle on the ICE modules, get the spec sheets and check the distortion and frequency response. Many of these high power modules are designed for stage use and aren't too careful about flat response or low distortion.  5% and +- 6db is not unusual at those levels.

You might also want to also consider the Crown XLS series.  I have a friend running a stack of 3 of the XLS1002s in a 5.1 configuration and it's mind bending good with Fluance Signature speakers and a home built sub.  OK, it's not DIY but I think you'll like the price.

And one day, after returning home from one of our meetings, I made up my mind to do something about the sad feeling I had listening to my system after hearing my friends systems.

Trust me on this one ... sound systems are a poor place to invest your ego.

I build these "sound bar killer" systems (like in the picture) for friends and more than once I've put super high priced systems right to shame on everything but raw power and most often for less than $700 cdn.

Unless you've heard your system in their room, or their system in your room, you really don't know. For all you know you might pack your stuff off to a friend's house and blow him right out of the water!  It happens, and I've seen it more than once. 

You may also want to set some money aside for room treatments ... something like half of a speaker's best performance is tied to the room it's in and the bigger the room the more likely it is to have echo and standing wave issues.

In any case, have fun with it. This is a great hobby and sometimes going over the top is half the fun.


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123Toid
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25/09/2019 3:54 pm  

@lightwriter62

That's going to be an awesome set up! You're right both Parts Express and Ghent audio sell the wires. I have used both.  Personally I would just use the ones that come with Ghent Audio. It's typically cheaper and the wires are already cut to the size for the amplifier case. So it makes it easier and cheaper and there's no loss in quality. 

As far as whether you should get the RTX kit, that's really up to you. If you plan to hook them up with RCA, then I would. It's better than using a cable like I do.  But if you plan to run these XLR, then there's really no reason to get the RTX. 

If you want to help me out, feel free to use my affiliate link. I don't get much, but any little bit guess back into this site and future projects. Http://bit.ly/2SJqB8 6" target="true"> Http://bit.ly/2SJqB86

 


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lightwriter62
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25/09/2019 4:19 pm  

@douglas-blake

Hi Doug, 

Here is the link to the ICEPower 1000ASP product page on PE, 

https://www.parts-express.com/icepower-1000asp-class-d-audio-amplifier-with-power-supply-module-1-x-1000w--326-206

Just click on the data sheet, I've read them a few times now, and I don't see much of a downside, and as far as I can tell, looks like hifi to me.

Thanks, Kent


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Speaker Builder
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25/09/2019 4:55 pm  

@lightwriter62

Thanks for the link. I think you should take a close look at page 12 and 14 of the data sheet. 

From page 12... There are some peaks in THD at 5 watts and 50 watts that may become audible on sensitive speakers. Also the idle noise seems to have quite the spike at 5khz, reaching -20db with respect to 100mw, which could be audible as a faint whistle, heard close up, in a quiet room. 

From page 14... Note that it's only rated for full output for about 10 seconds in the mid-audible range and the time falls off with frequency, this could be a problem the output filters, or output transistors heating up with sustained notes and special effects. 

Now I'd wager that 90% of your listening would never brush up against these specs because you simply would never push it that hard... but you probably should consider them when deciding.

I see nothing to disqualify the "HiFi" label...

 


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123Toid
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26/09/2019 1:16 am  

@douglas-blake

I would disagree with your assessment of page 12 and 14.  If you read the notes on page 12 it states "An Audio Precision AES17 20 kHz 7th order measurement filter is used for measurements. The frequency 6.67 kHz corresponds to the worst-case situation where both 2nd and 3rd harmonics are within the audio band."  When you are reading the problem area (which never goes above .2% at 4 ohm at full power), they are showing you the worst case scenario.  Many HiFi amplifiers can't even come close to touching this, which is why they only give their 1khz number (ie the easiest to push).  With the 1000asp, that measurement comes in at around .004% THD.  This is the only number you will typically find on any Amplifier and typically at only running 1 watt of power.  The fact that IcePower is so transparent, is a breath of fresh air in the amplifier world.  

I know you are happy with your 50watt amplifier.  And I am glad you are.  But many of us want dynamic headroom and clarity that you just can't receive with a 50w amplifier.  With the speakers he is planning on using, they will have some big woofers, that should have a large dynamic headroom.  This is especially apparent in dynamic movie and music scenes with bass.  In loudspeakers there is a term called power dissipation.  The basic premise is the higher the frequency the less wattage you use from your amplifier.  So if you have a 50w amplifier about 40 of those watts will be used before 1Khz.  When you run big woofers, you want that dynamic headroom for when it calls for it.  You aren't going to hit much bass or midbass with 1 watt of power during a dynamic scene or even 40w on a large woofer.  It's one of the reasons you go into high end dealers and they aren't playing their speakers on a receiver.  I have known many of people who have bought high end gear to get home disappointed.  To go back later and buy an amplifier that was designed better for their speakers and be extremely happy.  Heck even my Ugglies, I hooked up to a 50w per channel Ice Power amplifier and wasn't really happy until I hooked it up to the 200w per channel.  It's also the reason you read reviews on commercial speakers that admit, these speakers never really came alive until I hooked them up to an upgraded amplifier.  My Definitive Technology towers are that way.  They sound good hooked up to a small amplifier, but get them on something with power and they come alive. 

Either way, each person has to make their decisions on where they want to spend their money and what they think will best serve them now and in the future.  I know I plan to personally build a few more IcePowered amplifiers.  I am not sure if I am going to go with the 500 or the 1000 yet.  I am thinking the 500, but who knows. I'm not there yet. 

 

 


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