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$3500 Speakers for $350? Klipsch KL-650 Inspiration

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GrumpE1
(@grumpe1)
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Finally got all the bits, and some time, and ran sweeps of my speakers. They sound great, and if nothing changed, I'm one happy camper! But I recycled some old cabinets, used a different horn, and squeezed the xover bits onto a board which really needed another inch in all directions to keep the coils from chatting with each other... so the results aren't what was intended in the original plans. They're still the clearest, best sounding speakers to ever grace my humble abode...

Anyway, the graph is an average of three sweeps. Mic is dead center between the Faital's and horn, 3 ft back (a bit more than a meter). Two more sweeps are 8" left and right. Changing the distance closer just increased the db, so they were deleted. With both speakers, the profile is the same. The smoothing is psycoacoustic if that matters, 75db reference level... It looks like some EQ could clean it up, but for that hump between 200-400.

@Mr. Toid... any thoughts or ideas on that hump?...

 This has really been a great adventure 🙂 ... and the adventure continues...lol

edited 6-14-21: removed image. Lots of leads to follow, and the sweep isn't from the clone and not relevant.


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TVOR-Ceasar
(@tvor-ceasar)
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@Splinter

Next time, tin the wires individually before trying to solder them all together. Then try to make a smooth mechanical connection before adding any heat and solder.

What this does is since the solder has already flowed onto and into the wires, you won't have to have as much heat to get the overall solder to melt together. Also, a bit of extra flux will help things flow together more easily.

I still have and use my old (and I do mean old - ~40+ years) Radio Shack 30 watt pencil iron. I've just recently bought a new one that works well that has multiple tips. I've never had anything I can't solder with either of them. Just takes practice. (That and 60/40 or thereabouts Sn/Pb Rosin core solder)

-Charlie
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheTrueVoiceOfReason


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ajc9988
(@ajc9988)
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@tvor-ceasar - Yeah, Plumbum is being phased out, in part due to neurological issues that can appear with repeat encounters from soldering for years. That and it no longer is in paint for paint chips, gasoline, etc. LOL


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123Toid
(@123toid)
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@grumpe1

It is really hard to say for sure.  But first there are some concerns with how you measure it.  You really need to measure that nearfield, as some of that could be attributed to a room mode.  I also didn't see that you measured the port, which would need to be added in, to get the true low end response (once again measure nearfield - no more than an inch away).  But here are a few guesses.

 

1. You're box size is incorrect, which changed the tuning frequency to much higher than the original.  Because of this, this is causing the hump.

2. Your room is adding that.  Try taking nearfield measurements of the woofers and the port to see if that still remains.

3. The crossover is wired incorrectly.

4. Unlikely, but could be due to port resonance, once again because of a different sized enclosure.

I know you said you used a different enclosure.  DO you have any idea what size it is?  It is possible we just need to lengthen to ports for you. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/123toid


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Splinter
(@splinter)
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Thanks for the soldering tips guys. Yesterday I cranked the heat and re-did bits of my 1st crossover and the solder was flowing much better. Now I've got nice smooth joins everywhere.


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TVOR-Ceasar
(@tvor-ceasar)
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Posted by: @ajc9988

@tvor-ceasar - Yeah, Plumbum is being phased out, in part due to neurological issues that can appear with repeat encounters from soldering for years. That and it no longer is in paint for paint chips, gasoline, etc. LOL

Nitrile gloves and a fume extractor go a long way toward mitigation.

I can't exactly prove it, but I have the strongest suspicion that Lead Free solder is more brittle than the good old standby. That is just my own observations. YMMV

-Charlie
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheTrueVoiceOfReason


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TVOR-Ceasar
(@tvor-ceasar)
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@splinter

Excellent. Smooth, shiny, and well formed is what you are shooting for. Sounds as if you are well on your way.

-Charlie
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheTrueVoiceOfReason


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ajc9988
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@tvor-ceasar - you are correct in it being more brittle and not handling as many thermal cycles, generally, if I am remembering correctly. The move is more about lead than about longevity, etc. And a proper fume extractor and nitrile gloves do go a long way, as you mentioned.


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GrumpE1
(@grumpe1)
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@123toid

Thanks for the input.

I came across a thread here where you talked of Near Field measuring (he'd asked about help with an xover) also found more of your Vids. Don't fully get baffle step and diffraction, but they may be factors. There's a lip around the baffle where the wood lattice grill sets in... the grills not in place (yet)... much to investigate.

The volume was within .2 liter but the dimensions are different... however, I've yet to recheck my measurements... and go over the xover again.

They sound great and run with my center channel & hi-fi speakers... it's a pleasure to listen to. At this point, it's as much playing and learning as it is tweaking.

Will post back when I've more accurate info, or found a glitch.

Thanks for all that you've shared... I find your info in every corner of the web... all that a newbie diy'er needs, and some hand holding too.    You'll be up for sainthood, if you keep this up  😉


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cristidumi
(@cristidumi)
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hello all,

just a stupid question but I will still ask. as far as I remember from physics the capacitors can have different voltage(bigger values) if they have the same ratings. am I right?

I found all the capacitors with 400V with all the right capacitance and with a very good tolerance. They are rated at 3% but I measured average of 1%.

any thoughts? thanks  


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GrumpE1
(@grumpe1)
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Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 32
 

If the farad rating is correct, then they'll work. The tolerance sounds fine... I think 5%  or better for audio. 

If they're electrolytic then the higher voltage rating will keep it from reforming or sum such... but that's decades from now and so cheap as they are... for poly or film, the voltage won't matter. 


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123Toid
(@123toid)
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@grumpe1

If you kept the same spacing, that shouldn't be the issue.  Honestly, if you are sure your box is the correct size and spacing is correct.  THen it has to be tuning or the crossover.  

It is acting like you have it in about a 5.7 liter box.  At that size it would tune it closer to 200hz.  Did you add any bracing?

https://www.youtube.com/123toid


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123Toid
(@123toid)
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@cristidumi

400V will just handle more power. There's no reason to use it in comething like this.  BUt if you want to, you absolutely can. 

https://www.youtube.com/123toid


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GrumpE1
(@grumpe1)
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Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 32
 

Am I reading this correct, that the low point is the box tune frequency?

imp sweep 06 11 21b

my gross volume measurements put the clone at 40 liter, my box just over 42.. but much more of the original front baffle was cut out...  in any event, the graph seems to show a tune of just over 71hz. I noted that this is a good 10hz+ higher than the impedance sweep on page 7.

Can you help me with a port size to drop this?

The xover looks as intended. I ran a piece of 12 gage solid as a neutral buss thinking it wouldn't matter where the bits tied in... but perhaps it does... 

The speaker spacing is close... the Faital's maintain their center to center. The horn is 1" farther apart, to keep the existing bracing. Also, the horn is centered and the port was moved to the side of the Faitals. The existing brace has near 3" free space behind it... without the fiberglass, it would be well over 4...


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123Toid
(@123toid)
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Topic starter  

@grumpe1 as far as tuning is concerned you're pretty spot-on. The originals tuned at 68 Hertz near at 71. So that's really good. As far as the rest of your impedance graph there are some concerns. You are showing some issues around 220 HZ. It's really hard to say what this is just off of the impedance graph. But typically that is attributed to resonance or an air leak. You may want to double check and make sure there is no leaks anywhere around the box. If that is not problematic, then you may want to add a little bit more bracing and or some foam in the box to help reduce that resonance. 

I forgot you said you used a different horn. Is it just a different wave guide or a completely different waveguide and compression driver? In other words what did you use?

https://www.youtube.com/123toid


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