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So i need to design some surround speakers  

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Dameo182
(@dameo182)
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24/10/2020 5:30 am  

@123toid

If you could do some videos on how to use it that would be great, im sure theres many peoole in my position, that want to use amps like that but have no clue how to get the best out of them. Ill try to download it once i get my amp and i might even start a new thread specifically for my trails with that software. I didnt even know it existed until i saw it in the amps description. 

I have a quick question about the BSC in the crossover i made, does the resistor always have to stay at the same ohm as the driver its adjusting? Or is that just how the online calculator arranges it? 


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Dameo182
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19/11/2020 12:40 pm  

I've finally managed to make a start on these speakers, after finishing up my other build, but I had a quick question, if I wanted to change the surround design by making them mmt style instead of mtm, is that ok to do with my current crossover? Just switch around the orientation or is it way more problematic to do that? 

 

I don't plan to do this, it was just a question I thought of and realised I didn't know the answer, I mean if it is possible then I can decide which I prefer once the boxes are built, and if not at least Ill have got a bit wiser from asking the question lol


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Dameo182
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21/11/2020 8:59 am  

@123toid @TVOR-Ceasar

I need a bit of help please if you have the time, im considering flush mounting the tweeter and leaving the pc83 on the surface, can that cause any issues? I literally have no idea about fase alignment ( if thats even the correct term) ive seen videos about it but i just cant seem to understand it, especailly when it comes to checking for that in xsim, if you culd help me understand that id really appreciate it. 

Also i plan to buy a calibrated microphone soon to see if these speakers work ok and to see how close the xsim crossover was to how it is in real life, but i watched a couple videos about using rew and i think it may be way out of my league right now to do that, is it really as complicated as those videos seemed? Or is it something i could manage? I literally just want to see the real freq response of these speakers and then upload the files to xsim to adjust whatevers needed. 


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TVOR-Ceasar
(@tvor-ceasar)
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21/11/2020 1:04 pm  

You are thinking of the Z-Offset which is used to time align the drivers in order to keep them in phase. For example, if  a tweeter and a midrange both put out a 2000 Hz tone, and the bases if the cones are not lined up, the driver that has the cone base further forward would reach your ear just a hair before the other driver. Ideally, you would measure from where you would mount the driver back to where the cone/voicecoil former meet, compare to see if they are close to "0" alignment when mounted. The less offset, the better. It can be compensated for in the crossover, but I'll let the other more advanced designers help with that.

REW - just like any other software, there's a learning curve. I'm sure that once you dig into it, it'll become easier. I still have yet to really use it as life has been very hectic.

-Charlie


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Dameo182
(@dameo182)
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21/11/2020 1:41 pm  

@tvor-ceasar

 

 

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Thank you for getting back to me, i have to say im not too sure about what you mean, as in were to measure too, ive taken these pics of the drivers as if they were mounted both on the front of the baffle, can you please edit my picture by drawing lines on the points i need to measure too? It looks to me as if the tweeter needs to be inset to make the bottom of the cones match better? If thats the point of the driver you mean to be ''in line'? Although how im going to measure that i dont know yet.

 

And thanks for correcting me, now i know that its the z offset i can see if i can find any info that can help me to do this, as for rew, i will try it, but im not filled with confidence lol 


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123Toid
(@123toid)
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21/11/2020 4:56 pm  

@dameo182

I show how to figure out the z-offset in this video.   However, you do need a measurement microphone.  

You could try to guesstimate it or even do a measurement with a tape measure.  This will not be exact, but might get you close enough in the ball park to estimate it.  Really, though I recommend a measurement mic.  

Just make sure to input this in to Xsim when you simulate your crossover.


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Dameo182
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21/11/2020 6:38 pm  

@123toid

 

Thanks for that video, as im so new to anything microphone related, i dont fully understand some of the things you talk about in that video. You say to take measurements of both the woofer and the tweeter independently but without moving the microphone, so you take both driver measurements from tweeter hieght? And will that be the same for my mtm style? Also ive already done the crossover and bought the parts, is this going to drastically change everything i did before? 

 


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123Toid
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21/11/2020 10:47 pm  

@dameo182

That is correct.  You put the microphone at tweeter level and take all the measurements.  You also need to get it's impedance.  If it is an MTM, you would leave it at tweeter level.  The mids would be wired as the will be in the final arrangement (series or parallel).  The mic measurement will be both of them playing at the same time.  In reality, this is acting as one driver. The only reason you would take these separate is if you were doing a 2.5 way versus a 2 way. 


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Dameo182
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22/11/2020 7:22 am  

@123toid

Thank you, 

Can i ask how you got so knowledgeable with speaker building and all the things that come with it? 


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Dameo182
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22/11/2020 3:26 pm  

@123toid @TVOR-ceasar

 

I posted this once but it seems to have disappeared lol anyway, ive bit the bullet and ordered the omnimic and the dats, i just didnt trust myself to be able to use rew properly, so hopefully i can use these to get the best sound possible from my speakers, i want to be able to say i did everything in my power to improve them, i can use it for future builds too i guess. Like ive said before, i would really appreciate any help you can spare as i really want to learn, but not knowing anyone personally that can teach me is causing me to go in circles and then i just feel hopeless. So much information on the internet, but trying to intragrate it to my specific builds is confusing, just like this z-offset that i missed the first time doing this crossover lol 


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123Toid
(@123toid)
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22/11/2020 4:17 pm  

@dameo182

Let me know when you get it.  If you need help figuring anything out, I'd be happy to help you.  As far as how I learned, from others, research and experimentation.  That is why I am always happy to pay it forward to others.


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Dameo182
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22/11/2020 5:01 pm  

@123toid

No doubt i will need to get in touch with you, i should receive it on Tuesday, maybe Wednesday, and its great that you are willing to do that, not many people would take the time! I wondered if you had done some kind of course with how involved and knowledgeable  you are in audio. But if you ever need any advice on welding or fabrication, im your man, but thats all im able to pass on lol 


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TVOR-Ceasar
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22/11/2020 5:47 pm  

@dameo182 & @123toid

Like everyone else, I started out not knowing a thing other than "the speaker goes in a box and there you have it." Then I read (because there was no such thing as the internet as we know it) and read, and read some more. I still read up on many things, both in print and virtually. Then just messing around with what I've learned to see the outcome. And I joined here because I really wanted to be in a place that is, at the heart of it all, a true DIY home, as that has always been my passion. There are many other big, well established forums that can help, but tend to be a bit on the, well, kind of snobbish side of audio. Not that you can't get the info out of them, but you may have to deal with long termers that have a bit of 'tude. Here I want to give what help I can, and learn more so I can give more. I want people to be knowledgeable about how things work so that they aren't just "end-users". This can give "you" a leg up on the marketing speak to weed out the wheat from the chaff. 

REW - I bought an iMM-6 mic because I have a dedicated 1/8" mic in and 1/8" headphone out on my laptop, and it saved me a lot of money over other calibrated mics. I have to get into using it. Watching instructional videos and just using the pulldown menus, I'll figure it out. When I learn it, I'll help. 

-Charlie


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Dameo182
(@dameo182)
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22/11/2020 8:15 pm  

@tvor-ceasar

Ive tried to find things to read and learn from, but mostly its all without context, so it confuses me more. And as for other forums, like you say they seem to not like outsiders lol which for a beginner is hard work, so far this forum has been completely the opposite. From a couple of threads and informative comments ive learned al lot, well enough to complete projects i couldnt have done alone. As for the mic, it took me a whole day to convince myself to pay for the omnimic, but i want to get the best results, im a perfectionist, and if i had to use rew id have failed, its just too complicated for my experience. I do want to understand it but the fact i have two weeks to get these speakers finished means ill have to learn it later, but if you do figure it out id love some tips. 


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kanaaudio
(@kanaaudio)
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Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 71
24/11/2020 3:50 pm  

@dameo182

Couldn't agree move regarding some of the other forums online, I was on a few of them before this one and I've got to say, even when being polite and all, it seems like you're such a hassle for those who end up answering you. My thoughts on that? Why would you even spend your time to answer me then? Or better yet, why would you want to join a forum in the first place?

Anyway, I too want to thank you guys on here for being the kind you are. You are genuine people and this is a great place to share and learn and I am sure that we can all do great stuff together,


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