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Kevin Kendrick
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09/08/2019 11:17 pm  

@douglas-blake

There wasn't any bickering going on. Although I have a feeling you and I will at some point, have already had one exchange, looks like you're trying to start another one with  your "Commander Data" comment. Little surprised you would make that comment since the bulk of everything you post is data or tech related, whatever man, some people just like to stir up crap. Looks like you're one of them.

To correct you, suggesting different box alignments isn't bickering. There is no right or wrong answer here, it comes down to personal preference by the end user and what fits his or her needs best.


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Kevin Kendrick
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09/08/2019 11:21 pm  

@tvor-ceasar

Charlie, I wasn't trying to contradict your suggestion earlier and hope you don't think I was being a smart-ass about the competition between the software's, just curious which was closer to it's actual predictions. Thought it might be a fun challenge. 


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Douglas Blake
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09/08/2019 11:23 pm  
Posted by: @kevin-kendrick

@douglas-blake

There wasn't any bickering going on. Although I have a feeling you and I will at some point, have already had one exchange, looks like you're trying to start another one with  your "Commander Data" comment. Little surprised you would make that comment since the bulk of everything you post is data or tech related, whatever man, some people just like to stir up crap. Looks like you're one of them.

To correct you, suggesting different box alignments isn't bickering. There is no right or wrong answer here, it comes down to personal preference by the end user and what fits his or her needs best.

Before this gets out of hand please follow THIS LINK

 


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123Toid
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09/08/2019 11:38 pm  

@kevin-kendrick

I haven't finished reading all the comments yet.  But I didn't try running for best result.  I just ran the same size and tuning as @tvor-ceasar to see what my F3 would be. 


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Kevin Kendrick
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09/08/2019 11:57 pm  
Posted by: @douglas-blake

@tvor-ceasar

... and probably ends up proving a long-time opinion of mine that building audio is an inexact science that is subject to craftsmanship.

 

On this much, we agree. 

Sorry if my earlier comments or suggestions offended anyone, wasn't my intention. Was only offering advice based on my experience with similar drivers. Good luck Ed.


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Kevin Kendrick
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10/08/2019 12:04 am  
Posted by: @123toid

@kevin-kendrick

I haven't finished reading all the comments yet.  But I didn't try running for best result.  I just ran the same size and tuning as @tvor-ceasar to see what my F3 would be. 

No problem Nick. As you know, best results would depend on one's needs. Ultimately, that will come down to Ed and what kind of expectations he may or may not have. Douglas made some good points in his original reply to Ed, I missed his suggestion for a cardboard box to get a better feel for the driver in his environment. This is a small driver, bass will not be one of it's strong suits. From what I've heard and read about it on other forums, an excellent full range driver all the same.


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edfuller
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10/08/2019 12:10 am  

Thanks guys, it'll be a while before I can fully digest the finer details of what's being discussed here but as a starting point I'm looking at a 0.175 enclosure and a port of 1 * 1.9 inch? Thanks for the site suggestion Charlie, looks really useful. I've seen adjustable ports, are they worth bothering with? I guess it's hard to work out the actual diameter and length since one tube slides over the other but should be easy to figure out what sounds good


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TVOR-Ceasar
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10/08/2019 1:30 am  

I saw no bickering and I got the ST TNG reference (as a matter of fact, I am writing this on an Android phone

picard android

).

This is all done in the spirit of camaraderie, a hopefully burgeoning community of makers who want to bring glorious sound to everyone. As Brain said to Pinky, and I paraphrase: "Tonight, we take over the world!"

Well, at least our own little rooms. 

Everybody grab some shut-eye and I'll catch you on the flip-side.

-Charlie


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TVOR-Ceasar
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10/08/2019 2:13 am  

Ed, you are quite welcome. I actually stumbled across that site and a few others when I was out at a friend''s house and I wanted to see what one of the PE drivers would do, but I didn't have my laptop. There's a lot of info out there.

As to what you "should do", well, just know that these numbers that have been thrown around are actually just a starting point. You may find a smaller box may work better or a bigger box  is more exciting to your ears. So design away, but fine tune with your ears. Besides, there's lots of wiggle room to experiment with.

Same goes for the port, which is correctly termed a Helmholz chamber. You don't have to be exact, just be relatively close.

I wish to stress to you to take your time and enjoy the process of creating your own personalized speaker. I think you'll be proud of what you will make.

-Charlie


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123Toid
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10/08/2019 11:35 am  

I'm in the process of packing and look what I found. Yup, a pair of PS95-8's.

15654512673158395210451848544663


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edfuller
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10/08/2019 11:20 pm  

@123toid

haha awesome, looking forward to seeing what you do with them and what you think of them 🙂


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edfuller
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11/08/2019 12:22 am  

Ok, so I think I'll be using the PS-95s for the PC speakers in a pretty basic setup. I've also got a pair of M4Ns I could use for the TV speakers, maybe in a soundbar. As a noob though I'd like to buy an off-the-shelf crossover for this, I'm not afraid of a bit of soldering but I figure there's enough variables for me to stuff up without adding the crossover into the mix 🙂 I'll probably have a crack at it for the next build. Looking at tweeters though, does it matter if they're more sensitive than the drivers? I'm guessing you don't want the highs dominating but since the tweeters are smaller should they be more sensitive anyway to compensate? I'm thinking these guys:

https://www.parts-express.com/hivi-tn25-fabric-dome-tweeter--297-408

Sensitivity is 89db against the M4N at 82db. That seems a significant difference but I can't find any tweeters much lower. I guess that's where you can tune it more effectively when designing your own crossover.

The tweeter has a range from 2500 to 22000 and Fs 1500, and the M4N from 69 to 8000, would a crossover at 3000 be ok? and if so I could go with this:

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-xo2w-3k-2-way-speaker-crossover-3000-hz--260-144

Initially I was thinking the crossover isn't cheap but actually the cost of components and the time saved I guess it's not too bad.

Expectations wise, this will be my 1st or 2nd speaker (depending on the order I do them) so all I really want is for it to sound decent enough, or, not shit 🙂 I know I could probably get better results from running the software and doing my own crossovers but I'll look at doing that on the next one once I've got some experience and a better understanding of what i'm doing, after all, once this one is built I can always come back to it and improve it or tweak it in the future.


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TVOR-Ceasar
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11/08/2019 11:20 pm  

Being as the tweeter is 5 ohms and the woofer is 8 ohms, you will most likely need some attenuation on the tweeter, especially with that much difference (7 dB) in efficiency (SPL).

The old fashioned way (and probably easiest) is to wire up an LPad to attenuate the tweeter. Or you could go through the calculations to figure out what resistance is needed to get them close enough to the same.

You might find this website useful:

https://www.v-cap.com/speaker-crossover-calculator.php

Of course, anyone else is welcome to chime in with their perspectives on this topic.

-Charlie


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edfuller
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12/08/2019 5:08 am  

@tvor-ceasar

Thanks Charlie, so maybe it's best if I bite the bullet and go with doing a crossover then.

I goolged around and someone designed some speakers called "Sophomores" a few years back with this same combination so I could follow that design. Doesn't sound like it's an ideal first project but I'll give it a crack i guess 🙂

Thanks again for everyone's help on this, I'll post progress updates however good or bad it turns out, haha!


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TVOR-Ceasar
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12/08/2019 10:56 am  

With your combination, a custom crossover is all but required. The one you linked lists the network as being designed for a 8 ohm tweeter, whereas yours is a 5 ohm. If you go to that website I linked above, to illustrate the difference, use the 1st order at the top. Plug in 8 and 8 and 3000. Note that the capacitor is 6.63 uF. If you change the top 8 to a 5, the capacitance jumps up to over 10 uF. Now start changing the frequency until you get the capacitance back to 6.63 (4800 Hz). You've now shifted the crossover frequency up more than half an octave from design. It may be okay, but it may leave a bit of a hole in the response. You may not know unless you can measure the response once its all put together. 

Now go to the bottom of the page to the L-Pad box. Put in your 5 (ohm) and how much you want to attenuate the tweeter. Remember, it is 7 dB different. If you want the sound to be a bit bright, use less than 7. Flat should be right at 7. 

Also, for each section there is an "Additional Information" link, This will expand down to show you how to wire the circuit.

*Note: the type of capacitor used in crossovers is specified as a NP (Non-Polarized) type. On Parts Express's website, select Speaker Components -> Crossover Components to ensure you get the correct type. On other sites you'll have to verify that they are NP or Non-Polarized.

-Charlie


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