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cjwest10
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16/06/2019 2:32 pm  

Hi there.  I've very much a newbie although I've been following 123Toid's Youtube videos for a long while.  I would say I'm more of a woodworker who is interested in making speakers rather than a speaker enthusiast interested in woodworking.  We recently purchased three large slabs of reclaimed spalted pecan that I want to turn into a modular home theater system.  To this end, I need to design and build two subwoofer cabinets that will be positioned in the front of the room.  The 12 inch Dayton Ultimax speakers are at the top of my list for drivers, although I'm open to other suggestions. According to the specs I think that I would need to purchase two 1000w Dayton plate amps too power the subs. At around $360 per amp, this is cost prohibitive for me.  My question is are there amp alternatives for my subs?  There will be a closed cabinet between the two subs where I will store the receiver and other equipment so I don't necessarily need the amps to be part of the box.  Can anyone recommend a more cost effective way to get the most out of these drivers?  

Thank you,

Cara


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oneway
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16/06/2019 3:08 pm  

crown xls 2502 or 2002 would be my choice..


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123Toid
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17/06/2019 12:28 am  
Posted by: cjwest10

Hi there.  I've very much a newbie although I've been following 123Toid's Youtube videos for a long while.  I would say I'm more of a woodworker who is interested in making speakers rather than a speaker enthusiast interested in woodworking.  We recently purchased three large slabs of reclaimed spalted pecan that I want to turn into a modular home theater system.  To this end, I need to design and build two subwoofer cabinets that will be positioned in the front of the room.  The 12 inch Dayton Ultimax speakers are at the top of my list for drivers, although I'm open to other suggestions. According to the specs I think that I would need to purchase two 1000w Dayton plate amps too power the subs. At around $360 per amp, this is cost prohibitive for me.  My question is are there amp alternatives for my subs?  There will be a closed cabinet between the two subs where I will store the receiver and other equipment so I don't necessarily need the amps to be part of the box.  Can anyone recommend a more cost effective way to get the most out of these drivers?  

Thank you,

Cara

First of all I am jealous of your Pecan slabs 🙂  Live down south?  Seriously, that is awesome that you have that.  I feel your pain with the Dayton plate amplifiers. They really are expensive!  I completely agree they are cost prohibitive, especially with the alternatives, that can power both of those Ultimax subwoofers.  I would be looking at this Behringer Amplifier.  It is less than the cost of 1 plate amplifier and even includes DSP.  That way you can easily dsp your subwoofer for your room.  A huge benefit. Of course if you do not care about DSP, you could get the non DSP version and save about $50.  Personally, I think the extra $50 is well worth it.  You can put a high pass on it if you go ported.  If sealed, you can help extend the low end and even out the response due to room gain and or nulls.  Definitely a plus.    


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cjwest10
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18/06/2019 10:17 am  

Thank you very much for the recommendation.  I am indeed from the south. Austin to be precise and I purchased the lumber from a local mill that that salvages dead or dying trees from the community.  I'll post pictures as I get further into the project and will likely have many more questions.


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123Toid
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18/06/2019 11:29 pm  

Nice.  I had a feeling 😉  I lived in TN for a few years and loved it.  Maybe someday I'll move back.  Who knows.  Keep us updated.  I can't wait to see how it turns out.


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bjaurelio
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07/08/2019 2:36 pm  

I second the Behringer or Crown amplifiers with dsp. My 15" sealed ultimax extends below 20Hz. I can't wait to see pics of your build. Spalted pecan is beautiful wood.

Recently, I bought a board for a monitor speaker project and realized the wood can be fairly weak. For a subwoofer, you probably will probably want to laminate it to some mdf or plywood. The pressures inside a subwoofer enclosure get pretty high.


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Speaker Builder
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07/08/2019 5:15 pm  

Hi guys ... just a small note for you ... the Crown XLS amplifiers already include the low and high pass filters you need for subwoofer and surround setups.  They can even be used for biamping speakers.  It's all in the setup menus.

Also, a sealed enclosure can theoretically go right down to 0 hz with the woofer cone just sitting there. The problem is that most people wouldn't be able to hear much below about 30 or 40 hz, although we can detect a presence below that... the room will feel haunted.

 


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shrub0
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28/08/2019 6:44 pm  

Interesting, are the subs going to be made from Pecan or just the home theater console?


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bjaurelio
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30/08/2019 4:55 pm  

The Crown amps do include filters like the Behringer amp, but for HT use, they are a better value. If stressing the amps more in a pro audio environment, the higher reliability of Crown is a much bigger advantage.


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cjwest10
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04/01/2020 10:55 am  

So I'm finally coming back around to this project.  I got distracted with a kitchen remodel for a bit.

The plan going forward is to start our home theater setup with two subs.  It might take some time to finish the setup because I want to build everything myself and I don't want my husband to freak about the budget.  Really anything would be a huge step up from my budget Samsung soundbar I purchased at Costco 5 years ago.  My very generous grandparents give all their grandchildren money for Christmas and I plan on using this plus a little to get a start.  

I have a couple of questions I'm hoping folks more knowledgable than me can help answer.  If you had $500 to spend on drivers, what would you pick?  It would be nice if the drivers and the amp together could come out closer t0 $500.  I don't think this is possible but if it is, what would you recommend?

I had originally planned on using ultimax 15" speakers but some guy recommended Stereo Integrity's SQL-15 as an alternative.  Is this something worth considering?

I still plan on using the spalted pecan slabs sitting in my shop but after a lot of reading, I'm going to veneer 1/2" pecan to 1/2" MDF.  The wood is beautiful but I don't have any confidence that it will stand up to pressure over time.

Should I go with a sealed or ported design?  Sealed seems ideal because they are smaller but will I be limiting the subs performance by choosing sealed?  My home theater isn't ideal.  We have a large open floorpan with a 20' vaulted ceiling opening to a loft. 


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TVOR-Ceasar
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04/01/2020 7:21 pm  

First, let's start with what you are using to decode the audio. Is it a AV system with the channels already split up or will you need to buy the surround decoder too? This will determine what to focus on, amp wise.

As to the drivers, I'll have to look when I get home. There are quite a few to choose from. Any particular size range?

And as to box type, that depends on the driver. Some will work in both and at that point, it's a personal preference. 

Are you comfortable learning some software? There's some good freeware out there. I want to learn WinISD, but the old BASIC stuff I use works well for me. I will share if you are interested, or you might wait until I get the bigger better version written. 

Can't wait to see that Pecan all polished up. That's some pretty lumber.

-Charlie


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cjwest10
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05/01/2020 10:13 pm  

I was planing on something like this for my A/V system but powering the subs with a separate amp. My home theater is also my entry way, living room and dining room. It isn't ideal and the only way I can get power to rear surrounds is to lay flat speaker wires before I lay our new flooring.

Also, I can't fit anything larger that a 22" below my window casing.   I'm not willing to compromise on that point because I spent a lot of time casing those windows and I like them.  With a reasonable reveal and some speaker feet, this means the max sub driver I can fit will be 15" but 12" might be more aesthetically pleasing.  I know, the struggle is real. Better sound or better looks.

 As far as learning new software, I'm generally good with that.  Designing UX on new software is my day job. That said, I still struggle with sound engineering terminology and have to look up a lot of things.


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123Toid
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06/01/2020 3:52 am  

@cjwest10

Have you considered building a hidden subwoofer? For example, you could build an end table with a subwoofer built into it.  Just an idea.


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TVOR-Ceasar
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06/01/2020 4:40 pm  

That puts things in a better perspective. 

If you use a lineout for the sub, just about any "decent" Class D amp will do. Just make sure to get one with enough power. That'll be determined by your choice for the sub.

To the sub itself. I started running through the list on PE last night. There's quite a few there, and that's only one place. If you start looking at other places, it could take a while to narrow it down. I'm looking for something that has deep response without needing a huge enclosure. With your max height of 22", I'm thinking that up to between 2-1/2 to 3 CuFt would be about as big as you'd want, preferably as small as possible. Most calcs I run bring in either a huge box (6 or more CuFt) or a less than stellar bottom end. But there's still quite a few left to go through in the 10"-15"  range. 

Would you be averse to using multiple smaller subs? Say (4) 6" to 8" drivers in 1 box? As an old friend of the family who is in the PA / Concert sound system business once said, "Give me voice coils. I can make 4- 10" woofers play louder and hit harder and deeper than 1- 15" ." And for every extra cone you add to it, you get a 3dB boost. So if one particular driver is 88 dB, 4 of them would be about 97 dB.

Just some thoughts.

Nick, I still have some end table speakers my late brother-in-law (and best friend) made back in the early 80's. They will be going to my oldest once he buys a house. He was looking at some even older side tables that had 8" drivers in them from ?the 50's to 60's? at his local Goodwill. Would have been interesting to hear them.

-Charlie


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cjwest10
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06/01/2020 10:11 pm  

I've watched quite a few youtube builds on down-firing subs. This is my favorite. I'm keen to try to something with wood-formed concrete.  Perhaps my deck speaker system... I don't really have a setup for that though in my living room without chipping up the slab for power. Would be cool though. Has anyone had experience with Stereo Integrity vs Dayton Ultimax?  One of the negative reviews on PE suggested Stereo Integrity as an alternative.  I'm just not sure if it's reliable or not.


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