Kartesian Group Buy
If anyone is interested in Kartesian drivers, let me know and we can see about a group buy.
Nick put me down for 4-4" sub120_vHP-F subwoofers.
Would also like to get pricing on their WOM 165_vMS.
I will be reviewing their offerings to try to pair up speakers that I may want for my build. Should have a list shortly.
Right now making a spreadsheet of their offerings, along with taking notes on their impedance and suggested frequency range versus what I would consider usable for on and off-axis. This is to plan approximate cross-over areas, liter recommendations, sensitivity, avoid when possible having the speaker perform at their Fs, and consider what types of speakers I would want to make (3-way floor standing most likely, but planning bookshelves, center, monitor, sub).
This is my first build, so I might give my reasoning on my selection and ask for advice after I finish looking just to see if I am missing something very obvious to the more advanced builders here.
Some prices for some models I asked about last night by email:
- The WOM165_VMS-8 is offered at € 105.60 (unit price including VAT excluding delivery costs)- The SUB120_VHP-F-8 is offered at € 74,88 (unit price including VAT excluding delivery costs)- The TWT28_VHP-8 is offered at € 62,40 (unit price including VAT excluding delivery costs)- The TWT30_VMS-8 is offered at € 98,40 (unit price including VAT excluding delivery costs)We do not yet sell the following products: Mid120_vHE, Wom250_vHE, sub250_vHE, twt12_vHP and twt25_vHE.
Prices forthcoming, may increase qty. Thks.
I'd be interested in one pair of kartesians, woofers and tweeters. I'm not certain if there is a specific design project in the works or just purchase opportunity for bare woofers.
I'm truthfully not looking for any more speakers at the moment, and not looking to invest the time right now into the trial and error of designing a crossover, but if someone is planning to put in that design work for a set of bookshelves, or desktop monitors then that shared knowledge would be enough for me to commit to whatever speakers those plans specified.
To me, 4" sounds ideal for some near-field desktop monitors but I would be open to other projects as well.
As a contribution I'd be willing to perform a batch assembly of crossovers that I could ship to those involved in the group buy.
Has Nick or anyone else received samples that they are using for design work?
@ezee - My thought on a pair of bookshelves with the speakers they have would potentially be with the Wom165_vMS paired with the Twt28_vHP. My thought is to cross them around 1800Hz to 2000Hz. For the US, the VAT would be taken off, then customs duties added on, plus shipping to the US.
I'm still looking to see if I could find one of their mids to use. They also have an example of a bookshelf using the Wom165_vMS, the twt30_vMS, and the twt12_vHP, but that last tweeter is not available (on their website at the bottom, it said contact for details about the example they gave).
There is also potentially playing with 4 of the Sub120_vHP-F together with a twt28_vHP as a center channel. Or the twt30_vMS with two Wom165_vMS. Of course, this is assuming trying to pair on sensitivity rather than leveling sensitivity with a crossover. Otherwise 2 of the 6" drivers with the twt28_vHP would be a good match.
I'm also considering doing two floorstanding with the 6" and twt28, although using two of the 6" per speaker with the twt30 is an interesting thought.
Forgive me, still a noob and planning a first build, so trying to think of what will work, have good off axis performance, etc.
A spreadsheet layout minus my comments to myself on .Kartesian's speakers listed on their website. I have not added the information on the wideband, compression, or coaxial yet. Was going to, but those are not relevant to my initial project I want to do. Although doing a PA system with these speakers could be cool down the road.
And the Frequency Range column is if the company made a recommendation on the usable frequency range. I have separate impressions not in that image for where I feel the usable frequency range is or what you could stretch it to per speaker.
There are a a few more people that contacted me via other means. Iw ill direct them here so we can decide on what we want to order. When that is decided, I'll talk to TLHP and see what they can do for us.
I won't know what I want to order until you do a build with them and tell me what to order 😉
@thatguy - I've started playing with tuning a 4xsub120 build, a dual Wom165_vMS, and a single build. I was able to tune them down to about 85Hz or so. I changed the vent size realizing they could take more watts, but not final until finding out RMS.
I wrote a longer explanation, but got logged out so it didn't post.
Volume and tuning frequency are in the pictures. The vent size is wrong after changes to the signal.
The website is up and I updated my spreadsheet with the prices. This is not my final order, but the Wom120_vMS seems to be the mids compromise.
Please keep me abreast of any projects for bookshelf speaker and I am in
Hi Nick, thanks for organizing this group buy!
My wish list, as promised...
2 x COX165_vPA
2 x WOM250_vHE
If WOM250 not available, then 2 x WOM165_vHE, but will prefer WOM250, even if there will be a few weeks wait.
OK, this should be the last spreadsheet I post. This one uses the datasheets from the distributor supplemented with some data from the distributor listed on the website. Where there was conflict, I went with the datasheet. The frequency range largely came from the distributor's pages.
I wish that the Twt30_Horn for the twt30 came with some off-axis graphs to better see what it is doing in the 8000-20,000Hz range. But seeing the data sheet, that is interesting. I also filled in the data on the compression, wideband, and coaxial speakers from the distributor. After all, the more people that buy, the more it might help my cause. Because of that, I will be updating and creating more of the files for WinISD to generate ideas on combinations that might work. (*remember - I am a noob, so it is always worth punching in these numbers and the numbers I show in images from WinISD yourself to make sure I didn't make a rookie mistake in my analysis and the combination of speakers*). I also rearranged the cell order so that after Freq. Range, it goes in the order you would put the info into WinISD moving left to right starting at the top moving to the bottom. That should help those that want to model things to figure out their projects.
For the dimensions, though, you still have to go to the manufacturer website or download the datasheets from the distributor. Sorry!
Linear Excursion (Xmax) and Maxima Excursion (I believe this is Xlim) are in mm. Voice coil is in mm. Nominal and Max Power is W. Magnet Diameter (not sure I trust, but it was on the distributor's page) is also in mm. Nominal Impedance is obviously Ohms.
Edit: Also, I'm taking advice on my floorstanding speakers to go with these on subwoofers between 6.5-12 inches that can handle the 20-80Hz range. I'm looking to spend around $150 or less on each (workable to $20 above that). So far, I'm considering the Dayton Audio RSS265HO-44 10", which should do well for 40-80Hz, which 80Hz will cross to the Wom165, which will cross around 800-1000Hz to the 2xWom120s, that will then cross around 3000 to the Twt28_vHP, which is good at 60 deg. off axis until around 8000Hz. Also, if anyone knows a good tweeter that can keep 60 deg. tighter than 9dB by around 12,000-13,000Hz to 20,000Hz using 1/12 Octave smoothing, let me know (it is around 6dB at 60 deg starting around 9500Hz to 10,000 hz).
If they cannot provide costs on every speaker, would they provide a range in price so we can budget out our potential builds?
@mjcril - Please look at the price columns in my spreadsheet to the far right. You will see prices in Euro which include VAT (Value Added Tax which US customers do not have to pay, but we have to pay import duties, plus international shipping, so you can estimate that being close-ish before shipping; they will discuss duty costs before or while discussing shipment after we get the group buy together). I took the liberty of converting the currency at the current rate of $1.20 per 1 euro. This conversion rate can change depending upon processor (one of those things with exchanging international currencies).
So, if the column does not have a price for it, then it is NOT offered for sale by the distributor. You can still contact .Kartesian directly, but that is outside the purview of the group buy.
Alternatively, please visit the distributor's link here ( https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/univers-des-marques/kartesian-speakers.html ) to see which ones they have or refer to this list (with the price of Euro including VAT changed to USD):
Wom120_vMS-8 - $77.76
Wom145_VMS-6 - $101.52
Wom165_VMS-8 - $126.23
Wom250_VPA-8 - $288
Twt28_VHP-8 - $74.59
Twt28_vMS-8 - $103.68
Twt30_vMS-8 - $117.62
Twt30-Horn - $51.84 (this is a Horn/waveguide for the Twt30_vms which looks very nice, but I would like to see off axis performance with it installed)
Sub120_vhp-f-8 - $89.51
LOM120_VPA-8 - $110.88
Lom165_VPA-H-8 - $115.20
WIB50_vHP-8 - $38.16
WIB70_vPA-8 - $41.04
CMP25_vHP-H-4 - $59.04
CMP35_vPA - $108
CMP65_vPA - $239.04
Cox120_vHP-8 - $131.76
Cox165_vPA-8 - $210.24
These are just estimates. Depending on duties and shipping, foreign exchange pricing (currently it is around $1.19 per euro), and other factors, these could be more or less expensive. Please do NOT consider this final pricing.
Just order Sub 120 & Twt30 , don't hesitate to purchase trough the seller "Tout Le haut parleur" they are very serious since a long time and one of the best point source in France.