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pwarren3030
(@pwarren3030)
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08/08/2020 3:05 am  

I'm fascinated by speakers with side firing woofers because they allow the cabinet to be narrower. It aligns with 123Toids ideas about getting the most sound from the smallest size cabinets. e.g the 8" cube subwoofer and car subs based on 3" Tangband drivers and 3D printed boxes. I love this innovative thinking. 

So I

591480D4 80D2 418B 923E D2B11B20BADF

  developed a very rough concept of a stereo speaker pair based on 2 powered subs topped with a 3way passive. The idea is a deep box which is very thin say 125mm or 5" and the height will depend on the box volumes needed.

I have attached a hand sketch.

The Idea is a lowish cost very small footprint with potentially huge sound quality, only limited by how much you want to spend on drivers..

If like me you muck around with a few speakers, you may have some drivers lying around or you know where you can buy quality drivers at reasonable cost. 

If anyone is interested in this concept or has some experience with side firing woofers, I'd love to hear from you. Cheers Peter in Sydney.


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123Toid
(@123toid)
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09/08/2020 2:02 am  
Posted by: @pwarren3030

I'm fascinated by speakers with side firing woofers because they allow the cabinet to be narrower. It aligns with 123Toids ideas about getting the most sound from the smallest size cabinets. e.g the 8" cube subwoofer and car subs based on 3" Tangband drivers and 3D printed boxes. I love this innovative thinking. 

So I

591480D4 80D2 418B 923E D2B11B20BADF

  developed a very rough concept of a stereo speaker pair based on 2 powered subs topped with a 3way passive. The idea is a deep box which is very thin say 125mm or 5" and the height will depend on the box volumes needed.

I have attached a hand sketch.

The Idea is a lowish cost very small footprint with potentially huge sound quality, only limited by how much you want to spend on drivers..

If like me you muck around with a few speakers, you may have some drivers lying around or you know where you can buy quality drivers at reasonable cost. 

If anyone is interested in this concept or has some experience with side firing woofers, I'd love to hear from you. Cheers Peter in Sydney.

The only issue I would see is how you will fit the amplfier on that small of a baffle.  I love the idea.  In fact, I have built something similar for a recording studio.  Unless the amplifier will be internal or on the side, you may have issues fitting it.  It is just a thought.  Unless, maybe you have already thought of that. 


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pwarren3030
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27/08/2020 11:44 pm  

@123toid

Oh thanks for looking it over. and only one query. Well I haven't proceeded any further with the design since I was waiting for a genius designer to look at the concept and see sufficient merit in it to offer me some assistance. I'd probably need advice on driver selection and calculating cabinet volumes and port lengths. There are some side firing units on the market for $000's. I would need to size the sub to accommodate the amp but I feel a smallish amp say 100wx2 would be more than enough for a typical domestic room.   Due to the narrow width the amp would have to be mounted on the opposite side from the driver. but only on one side with a lead going to the other box. Surely such an amp is not that big in this day and age.

I'd be interested in details of the one you designed. That could be helpful. I think I said in my post you seem to like achieving surprising performance from small speakers.My concept is aimed at only 2 footprints including powered subs, so needing to take up any more floor space and by side-firing them they are smaller again.

Cheers from Australia....Peter.


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123Toid
(@123toid)
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29/08/2020 12:32 am  

@pwarren3030

Peter,

 

I am sure all of us on here would help pick out the drivers for you.  As far as the amplifier goes, my concern was more the placement of it.  I am not sure the material size you plan on using, but I am assuming something like 3/4." If that is what I am reading, my concern with putting it behind the woofer is you may not have the depth (4 1/4") before recess of the woofer.  If you put it on the back, will it fit width wise (3 1/2").  It might, there definitely are small amplifiers out there, especailly if you leave the power supply outside.  But you may be limited to the placement of the amplifier that is all. It can definitely be done. The one I built were a little bigger than your propossed design.  But here are a few pictures.  The amplifier was in the rear, but it was all 500w per speaker. 

Untitled 1
Untitled 2

 

 


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TVOR-Ceasar
(@tvor-ceasar)
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29/08/2020 10:58 am  

At this point, you have your basic guidelines and ideas. The next step is to see what is out there that will physically fit within those constraints and see if they will work with the general interior volume. Remember a really tight fit may be abated with slight machining of the box, but not much. You don't want to adversely affect the structural integrity. And don't let yourself get locked in too rigidly to your base concept, leave it open for some modifications to evolve into a better than conceived end result.

Here in the States, one of the most friendly to search sites is Parts Express. Then you have Banggood and AliExpress. What sites do you use when you are looking to order? It'd be good to cross check. There are many more, but these are the ones most people know of.

And anyone else out there that has a website they use, would you link it here so we can get a good global idea of what's out there, please?

-Charlie


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TVOR-Ceasar
(@tvor-ceasar)
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29/08/2020 11:15 am  

Just a quick question, what are your thoughts on how to secure the upper box to the lower (I see the recess in the lower box) in order to keep them from rattling?

-Charlie


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pwarren3030
(@pwarren3030)
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30/08/2020 12:04 am  

@123toid

Hi thanks for sharing your project. They look really nice. Are they scanspeak tweeters? I think I have seen these on the supplier websites. Maybe Scanspeak copies.


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pwarren3030
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30/08/2020 12:16 am  

@tvor-ceasar

Thanks for your advice. Yes I will begin to source the components probably aiming for bang for buck budget instead of diminishing returns high-end components. I'd like to achieve a kind of B&W/Dali/Polk quality level but maybe a little short of Dynaudio/Focal/Sonus Faber. Does that make sense.

Any suggestions for make/model are welcome.

I don't wish to go to a lot of trouble for a dissappointing result.

I am familiar with those suppliers you mentioned. Thanks. I also looked at Peerless India via IndiaMart which is like Aliexpress but more like Alibaba I think and I found it really hard to communicate with the vendor. I believe GR Research (Youtube) source their components from there. I will look for an Indian version of Ebay(Retail).

And when I have chosen a component list then I will need to size the cabinets around them. It may be that I make the base slightly wider to house the amp and speaker. If they're offset from one another I still may get a narrow outcome.


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pwarren3030
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30/08/2020 12:24 am  

@tvor-ceasar

I don't know yet. Maybe some latches or even just velcro. The plan is to have the top section that can be used as separete bookshelf speakers if preferred. Providing some flexibility, or if I make the top section first and give up, at least I have a nice pair of bookshelfs. Haha.

My big fear is my inadequate woodworking skills and tools. Its easy to screw and unscrew speakers and I can even solder now. But making a nice looking pair of cabinets is my challenge.

Hey I think you helped me with the sizing of my milkcrate speaker sub-box. Is your name Charlie?

Thanks for your interest and assistance.


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TVOR-Ceasar
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30/08/2020 1:15 am  

@pwarren3030

Yes, I'm Charlie. And I remember that you're an Aussie, so that's why I asked about your preference for "shopping". Shipping can be outrageous, so I figured I'd look where you look and see what's available.  

As to the quality, with good design, component choice and attention to good carpentry, you can make some really nice speakers. Will they rival the big companies? Probably not first off, but as you go along and refine your work, it'll get up there. That's the thing - most first designs need several iterations to find out what needs to be worked on to get it to where you want. It's all part of the process. But we'll be here to lend a hand as much as possible.

To the cabinet width, I am willing to bet that the limiting factor will be the depth of the woofer rather than the amp. The amp will only need about 4", ~102mm, to fit inside the cabinet and not hit the other side if you do a face mount on the side. So from the back of the faceplate to the tallest component... yeah, I don't see many that are that tall, especially when you consider most are Class D. That's why I think the woofer will be the stumbling block for width.

-Charlie


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TVOR-Ceasar
(@tvor-ceasar)
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Posts: 517
30/08/2020 1:22 am  

@pwarren3030

First thing that comes to mind is a tongue and slot system for the front, and maybe 2 eyehooks and a bolt/nylon locknut in the back, with just a touch of padding between the boxes for constant pressure / damping.

Or the sliding Keyhole type of system I've seen on some other objects.

Just 2 off the top of my head.

-Charlie


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pwarren3030
(@pwarren3030)
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13/09/2020 7:08 am  

Hi Charlie and Toid, (is it Nick?),

I've simplified my design. The upper section is now a two way with 1" dome and 4" full range ported. 5ish inches wide.

Lower is 8 or 10 inch but instead of just powering the sub, a 2.1 amp with bluetooth and aux in options.

Ok maybe too cheesy. Following the trends. Optional to power the upper passives with a better amp.

By going 2-way instead of 3-way in the upper allows budget for better components. 

Upper and lower connect with a simple tongue and groove arrangement.

Triangular feet with outrigger bar across the rear.

Thinking Tangband drivers or the new Punktkilde

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drivers when they come out. Could be a good way to showcase them. What do you think?


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pwarren3030
(@pwarren3030)
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Joined: 1 year ago
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13/09/2020 7:19 am  
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Dear Charlie and Toid (is it Nick?),

I simplified the design with just a 2way upper section. More cash for the components. 

Thinking of Tangband or new Punktkilde drivers when they come out. Possible good way to showcase these. What do you think?

Simple tongue and angled groove to join upper to lower.

Oh thinking to make it fully powered with Bluetooth or Aux input. What do you think?


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TVOR-Ceasar
(@tvor-ceasar)
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13/09/2020 7:12 pm  

This looks like a very "do-able" project. A 2-way with those size drivers should be able to come together quite well. Most 4" go up to 10kHz or better, while the 1" should get down to around 2kHz. Plenty of room to cross over somewhere around 4kHz to avoid beaming on the 4". Plus the 4" can use all that volume  to get down to around 90 Hz or just a bit better to blend well with the woofer. You may even be able to go sealed box, depending on what the internal box volume ends up. If you need to slide the back panel in a bit to optimize the volume for best frequency, you could do that as well.

The bottom box looks to have enough to work with, depending on the "sub" specs. If you can get the interior volumes roughed out for us, and an idea of what drivers you are considering, we can help you go through the pros and cons of each.

I like the tongue and groove idea. If you separate them, the bookie has a nice base. There's a spot on top of the sub that you can make an attachable platform to help hide the sub.

-Charlie


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123Toid
(@123toid)
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14/09/2020 5:35 pm  

@pwarren3030

I am going to also agree.  Definitely looks like a great project.  The only thing I would say, is typically, if you are going to have a ported woofer/subwoofer, the midrange will be sealed.  It allows for easier integration.

P.S. it is Nick. Feel free to call me whichever. 


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