Blog Forums DIY Speakers and Subwoofers Anyone ever “Clone” the SVS Prime Pinnacle Towers?

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    • #23906
      mo2breather
      Participant

      I heard the Prime Pinnacle Towers in a friend’s house and LOVED them. I was quite discouraged when I found out the cost for a pair. I am new to the whole DIY thing and I’m in the middle of building the Dinas bookshelf speakers. I am really enjoying this new hobby, but I want to upgrade my home entertainment system. Just curious if anyone knows the types of speakers, x-overs and the levels being x’d-over that I’d be able to start with to “design” a comparable pair of towers. I want to eventually build a complete Dolby Atmos system and I have many ideas for the supplemental components. Their website provides the tuning for the (3) 6.5″ subs, the size and mid drivers and the tweeters. Just don’t know if there is a close, 1 for 1 speaker to utilize for a build like this.

      Any information will be appreciated. TYIA!!!

      I currently running a 22-year-old Bose Acoustimass 15…so I am in dire need of an upgrade.

    • #23987
      123toid
      Keymaster

      I haven’t done anything like that. But it is something that has piqued my interest. What would be your goals around a build like that?


      • #23989
        mo2breather
        Participant

        Ultimate goal would be to have sound quality close or equal to the pinnacles but on a budget about 1/3 the cost. I love any to slowly build an Atmos system in our living room for all types of entertainment, movies, music, tv, streaming, gaming. I’m not doing a dedicated HT room just yet. I am planning on building a Kuda sub with an 18” DA Ultimax.

      • #23990
        123toid
        Keymaster

        They appear to use these woofers by peerless and looks like they use this glass fiber midrange also by peerless. I haven’t looked for the tweeter yet, but you are about $190 per speaker, plus tweeter and whatever the crossover costs. You should be able to do each speaker for under the $330 that you are wanting to stay under.

        Just keep in mind that Peerless might make some changes specifically for SVS, so they might not be the exact drivers, but they should be close.


      • #24001
        mo2breather
        Participant

        Hey, Thanks for that info. I will look into those. I was able to get a rough idea of the dimensions of the interior braces they utilize for separating the subs, and I know what frequencies they claim to be getting per sub. I’ll let you know if I run into anything or have any questions.

      • #24009
        123toid
        Keymaster

        Dude that is amazing! If you want to share any of those details, I could look it over and see if I could help out in any way. Maybe something like this will hit the channel someday. Definitely looks like a cool idea.


    • #24010
      tvor-ceasar
      Moderator

      I wonder what the difference would be between the woofer you linked and this Peerless? Comparing the 2, these might have an edge in certain areas, but may lack in others. Wouldn’t know until I’d have them in hand.

      Oddly enough, I was looking at these just before the post went up, thinking along the ISO100 style with a ~2CuFt box and a 3″ port x 6″ L (rough design), digs to 30Hz. Would have to put into WinISD, of course.


      • #24011
        123toid
        Keymaster

        @tvor-ceasar the main difference is that the HDS has more excursion. Based on what I was reading on svs’s website, it seemed like they used the HDS versus the SDS. Although I haven’t modeled them, so it’s possible that they did use the SDS.


    • #24012
      tvor-ceasar
      Moderator

      XMAX is the other way around, the SDS has 6.05mm vs the HDS at 5.38mm. At least that’s what PE says.


      • #24013
        123toid
        Keymaster

        @tvor-ceasar silly me, you are definitely correct. I must have been tired when looking at it. I know the HDS has copper shorting rings which should help with distortion at higher volumes. But you’re right, it definitely could be the SDS or a variant. The main concern I am having is how they wired the three woofers.


      • #24029
        123toid
        Keymaster

        @tvor-ceasar Alright I looked again and the reason I thought it was the HDS is SVS talks about aluminum shortening rings and the HDS employes this while the SDS does not (that I know of).


    • #24015
      tvor-ceasar
      Moderator

      They do look like the HDS – the vc dust covers look about the right size while the SDS look smaller.

      The SVS spec out at 8 ohm nom. With the driver configuration, it almost seems as if they are doing series/parallel with the 3 woofers and the mid-woofer all in one, really constituting more of a 2-way rather than a 3-way, unless I’m missing a driver on the back/side/bottom. Or maybe they have 2 – 4 ohm woofers and a single 8 ohm woofer, making a 4-way system…

      I’ll wait on that until Mo comes back with further info – should be enlightening.


    • #24020
      mo2breather
      Participant

      Was a busy day at work. I have a file on my work computer. It’s an image off their website that shows a cut away. Problem was it’s drawn in a 3 pt. Perspective so I was only able calibrate a scale to the vertical dimension based on the overall height listed on their website. I was planning on trying my hand at WinISD to calculate the required volume of the different compartments based on speaker specs and the Hz listed on their website. The pdf I have a work I also colors the basic shape of the internal braces and compartments. I’ll upload it in the morning.

      They state in their website the material is 3/4” thickness with a 1” front baffle. The braces seem to be the same 3/4” thick. The top woofer shares a vented compartment with the tweeter. The midrange on the top appears to be a sealed enclosure. The other 2 woofers have their own vented enclosures but appear each has a crossover within the compartment. This is all from memory. By looking at the internal braces, it appears they are designed at a 60 degree angle. I wish I had a CAD program so I could draw up a model, but I only have access to a robust pdf manipulator.

      Have a great night Gents, I’ll post the file in the morning.

      • #24026
        123toid
        Keymaster

        Okay, this article started making a lot more sense. I thought to myself, it has to be a 3.5 way to A get that low and B to maintain that impedance. And sure enough, that is what they are calling it in this article. It appears they are crossing the mid to woofer at 300Hz and the tweeter to mid at 2.1 Khz both being second order.


      • #24034
        tvor-ceasar
        Moderator

        Good enough for me.

        That link sure does help. For a 29Hz F3, you’ll need 1.75 CuFt and a 2″Dx2″L port. Thing is, that’ll be down -3dB already, then down another 3 for F3. That’s why they want wall gain. If I can approximate the percentage difference in the other boxes, I can grab those #’s as well. Or if someone wants to give the sizes a shot, post ’em here and I’ll run ’em quick.


    • #24028
      123toid
      Keymaster

      After looking at SVS technical drawing, I think it pretty much confirms it is a 3.5 way. Basically the bottom woofer is designed to extend the bass the response. THe reason I think that this confirms the 3.5 way is that it has its own internal enclosure with port. The two above it have their own enclosure with their own port. And the mid-woofer and tweeter have their own enclosure with port. So I would assume that the two woofer in their own cavity are wired in series for a 16ohm load and with the half-way wired in it should give you a nominal 8ohm load.


    • #24031
      123toid
      Keymaster

      It appears the tweeter is the Peerless Corundum. It looks like it is pretty much out of stock everywhere right now. I have some…but they are in my Uglies.


    • #24037
      123toid
      Keymaster

      @tvor-ceasar At first I thought they were all different size boxes. BUt the more I look at their technical drawings and piece together the information, it appears they are all the same size boxes (but separate). Each one is sealed with their own 2″ port. So the blue would be normal window bracing and the Yellow Orange and Green would each box for each woofer.


      • #24065
        tvor-ceasar
        Moderator

        I’m just going off of what the guy wrote. They very well could be the same size.

        The Prime Pinnacle’s utilize a 1″ aluminum dome tweeter, single 5.25″ glass-fiber midrange, and three 6.5″ polypropylene woofers. There is a separate sealed midrange enclosure and three independent woofer enclosures, each utilizing a 2″ rear port and tuned to slightly different frequencies to optimize low frequency extension and midrange integration. Here’s where the specs get interesting. The engineers integrated these five drivers utilizing a three-way crossover (2.1kHz and 300Hz) with a nominal (and VERY easy to drive) impedance of 8 Ohms and 88dB sensitivity. They recommend a wide range from 20 to 300 Watts of required power, although I found that it took over 50 Wpc to really optimize dynamics and low frequency extension.

        I’d think that tuning one down to 29, maybe one to 40 and the next up to 50 or 55 would help reinforce the bottom end quite well. You’d have to measure the port output to know what they did.


    • #24039
      123toid
      Keymaster

      Actually I think it might be this tweeter. Which if it is, it is significantly cheaper. Making this build even more of a reality.


    • #24049
      mo2breather
      Participant

      Here is the mark-up I did earlier this week on that same schematic. I was wrong though, its a 2 pt. perspective, not 3. That is how I was able to calibrate the scale… The long chamfers offered a bit of a challenge to think thru, but I just projected the lines of the bottom corner up and the top/back corner out to the front top to create an intersection. This was guesstimated to be relatively accurate as they show an round over on the top edges.

      I think this is a good start for reverse engineering some similar. The crossover talk breaks out of English for me. Still learning.

      Later gents!

      Mo

    • #24066
      mo2breather
      Participant

      I was trying to find my notes before I attached that sketch, but I just found them…

      The subs are supposed to be tuned at 31 Hz, 37 Hz, and 42 Hz. It states in their description they have separate ported enclosures, so I don’t think the angled braces are window framed, I think their solid (at least that’s how I interpret that).

      Overall outside dimensions are 40.5″h x 8″w x 13.5″d and they weigh about 57 lbs each. 5-way binding posts, easy enough, SoundMatch 3-way crossover (not sure what that is, maybe a brand?).

      The top Mid has a sealed enclosure w/ angled back (brace).


      The tweeter and top sub share the space & the top crossover: X-over includes (8) components – (2) San Pass Resistors, (2) Electrolitic Caps, (2) Iron Core Inductors, (1) Air Core Inductor & (1) Poly Cap


      Middle sub: shares space with the bass X-over with (3) components to this board: (2) Iron Core Inductors and 1 electrolitic cap.

      The above info came from a YouTube Tear-Down of the Pinnacle Speaker.

      Whats INSIDE?! SVS Prime Pinnacle! – YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTloCucgnOI


      Indicated FEA-Optimized 1″ dome aluminum tweeter

      Freq. Resp. of 29Hz to 25k Hz (+/- 3db)

      Sensitivity 88db (2.83V @ 1m)

      Power 20-300watts each.

      Mid to woofer: 300Hz crossover

      Tweet to Mid: 2.1kHz crossover.

      1″ poly-sheet sound deadening

      3/4″ thk sides & back

      1″ thk front baffle

      (3) 2″ dia. flared ports

      Other specs (that I am not educated enough to understand just yet): Shorting Rings, Tweeter Diffusers

      Hope this helps put the puzzle together a bit.

      Later!

      Mo

      • #24122
        123toid
        Keymaster

        Yup. We are saying the same thing. The blue that I marked in the picture have to be window braces. This is due to the fact, that the top woofer is using the port above that brace. If it was solid, that port would not be doing anything. So according to the drawing, the first cavity is the slanted (part of the yellow) brace along with the sides and front baffle to house the midrange and the tweeter. The following three are indicated in the yellow, orange and green.

        My assumption is the small space between the orange (marked blue) is a small window brace. This is the only thing that makes sense. It wouldn’t make sense for it to be empty space there for a lot of reasons. In the end, I believe we are saying the same thing about the cavities. 4 in total.


      • #24129
        mo2breather
        Participant

        I totally missed those hidden lines, they absolutely would have to be a window brace.

        I downloaded the hobbyist version of Fusion360. I had a ton of AutoCAD experience in the ‘90’s, this is MUCH different. It’ll take me a bit to figure out how to use this program.

        Learning WinISD at the same time to figure out the internal volume and the port lengths. I’ll share more info as it comes.

        Mo

    • #24322
      mo2breather
      Participant

      Trying my hand and “redesigning” these on Fusion 360; this may take some time.

      I was able to model the six sides of the enclosure with the thicknesses they specify, but that’s about it so far…

      • #24335
        tvor-ceasar
        Moderator

        Finally caught some time to investigate.

        “The subs are supposed to be tuned at 31 Hz, 37 Hz, and 42 Hz. It states in their description they have separate ported enclosures…”
        Using the supplied TS parameters, I ran the numbers for a 2″ port tuned to the 3 frequencies listed. To get the natural box sizes for each, they’d be:
        31 Hz = 2.1 CuFt
        37 Hz = 1.79 CuFt
        42 Hz = 1.2 CuFt
        That would mean the speaker would need a minimum of 5.09 CuFt, plus divisions, bracing, driver volume, port volume, X-Over volume, and Mid-driver box volume. The OUTSIDE dimensions of the Prime Pinnacle calcs out to 2.53 CuFt, and once you take out all the other things mentioned above plus the thickness of the box walls and faceplate, there’s probably less than 2 CuFt left to split between the 3 woofers, which means they are forcing the tune of each box or the drivers used are different than what we can tell.

        If you can get some inside box dimensions so we can get the volumes, then WinISD can be used to see what they did. If I had time to put the outlines in AutoCAD, I could find out, but time is one thing I am desperately short on these days.


      • #24336
        mo2breather
        Participant

        @tvor-ceasar That’s great info! I started working on the bracing locations last night, finding Fusion 360 a bit cumbersome for my archaic knowledge of AutoCAD. I just watched one of Toids’ earlier videos about properly calculating port lengths and he was using SketchUp 2017…looked pretty user friendly. At any case, I am not “locked in” to the exact dimensions that SVS uses as long as I can get close to the performance. If boxes need to be a bit wider, deeper or taller, so be it.

        Later,

        Mo

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