Home Forums DIY Amplifiers and Electronics DIY Amplifiers with Orchard Audio Live! What is Gan?

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    123toid
    Keymaster

    Alright guys, mark your calendars we will be talking with Orchard Audio on November 20th.  We plan to discuss the new GAN technology in his amplifiers and just general DIY amplifiers.  I think his kit you can save around $1000+ just by building it yourself.  Thoughts?

     


  • DIY Amplifiers with Orchard Audio Live! What is Gan?

  • tvor-ceasar

    Moderator
    November 9, 2021 at 10:48 pm

    Gallium Nitride. Promising…

    Gallium has been in and out of transistors and semiconductors for years, but the newer architecture and compounds are looking really good. 


    DIY Amplifiers with Orchard Audio Live! What is Gan?

  • orchardaudio

    Member
    November 10, 2021 at 12:42 am
    Posted by: @123toid

    Alright guys, mark your calendars we will be talking with Orchard Audio on November 20th.  We plan to discuss the new GAN technology in his amplifiers and just general DIY amplifiers.  I think his kit you can save around $1000+ just by building it yourself.  Thoughts?

     

    Thank you for setting this up. I am looking forward to it.

  • ajc9988

    Member
    November 10, 2021 at 10:34 pm

    @tvor-ceasar – yeah, but this is where things are going on transistors as things shrink (sorry, did come from the PC side). GAN is part of III-V materials, just like gallium arsenic, which is metallic and can be used for conducting in semi-conductors. They are also trying to learn how to use Cobalt as a coating for wires to prevent electron bleed (or however you would like to say or describe loosing electrons from the conductor through electron tunneling effects). Because of those effects, there may come a time where copper is replaced, etc. But that is a longer discussion of emerging trends in manufacturing at tiny scale. Note- we are moving to Gate All Around (GAA) Field Effect Transistors (FETs) really soon. https://semiengineering.com/knowledge_centers/integrated-circuit/transistors/3d/gate-all-around-fet/

    https://www.notebookcheck.net/TSMC-to-implement-gate-all-around-GAAFET-transistors-on-the-2-nm-nodes-by-2023.494850.0.html

    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-at-iedm-stacking-nanoribbon-transistors-and-other-bleeding-edge-research

    https://www.freepatentsonline.com/9064943.html

    These will involve either nanosheets or nanowires. It’s some pretty heady and pretty cool stuff.

     

    Edit: This post has nothing to do with the topic at hand, I just wrote on a tangent that popped into my head. Yay for random thoughts.

  • tvor-ceasar

    Moderator
    November 11, 2021 at 12:37 am

    Nothing wrong with random thoughts. That’s what brings inspiration and change.


  • 123toid

    Administrator
    November 11, 2021 at 6:33 am

    How Well did it Measure?

    I like the idea of GAN. I know in calls D amplifiers the GAN transistors are supposed to switch faster. I am not sure of all the benefits or of they are realized benefits. Having said that, I am really looking forward to hear from @orchardaudio on the 20th about it.

    Leo was also nice enough to send over some test data of the exact modules he sent me.

    2869-SN31210009.pdf
    2870-SN31210067A.pdf

    First of all, I think that is pretty cool to have data an my specific units. I always love when manufacturers state it, but it make you feel even better when you know this is not just a test sample data, but your specific manufactured amplifier. Here is the data if you guys want to take a look at it.


  • ajc9988

    Member
    November 11, 2021 at 2:38 pm

    @123toid – That’s some nice looking data with some very low noise. Which noise is a discussion that hasn’t, in my opinion, been had enough. Specifically, discussion of tests showing where the audible limit of noise is, where the audible noise becomes troublesome to listeners (where it sounds bad), buying with the rated 1% THD+N level above that of RMS on the drivers so that the driver’s RMS is lower than where the amplifier’s 1% rating is on Watts (for the examples here, it is around 100W that it starts its assent into higher distortion, even though 200W is fine; but the amplifier’s 1% THD rating is probably around 400W, etc.).

    Also, is the noise more audible when dealing with high sensitivity drivers built for pro audio (a reason for THX to limit the rating to where THD+N is at 0.1% distortion, or whatever that standard is for PAs)? Especially if they are playing at or above 120dB?

    In other words, it would be interesting to see their take on the necessity of their product with such a low amount of distortion and noise, which applications would best utilize their products, why they think home audio or professional audio would be a good fit for integration of their amplifier circuitry (and why it is not buying on extremely low distortion, which to their credit they have, but that is below the audible threshold so that lesser products can mostly accomplish the same thing without the additional cost). Now, even though these questions are pushing and challenging them, it should be noted their products are comparable in noise levels and outputs to other products on the market. So it is good to then see how they see themselves positioned in this market. That might include asking how they see themselves versus the Purifi 1ET400A or the Hypex Ncore. There are a couple other players with very low amplifier distortion, but these are all standouts. So asking how they see themselves in the current market relative to their competition is important.

    As I said, their products look good and the numbers in testing look awesome. But, I am a lawyer, so asking those pesky hard questions for an interview is what I do (like justify your products’ uses or your place in the market). I don’t mean to offend, I think it is just good to get on the record and to better understand the company and the people making the products. Especially if they go into the nerdy nuances and get excited when doing so or being given the opportunity to do so. It shows passion, something very important for companies at the bleeding edge in their industry. Or at least something I like to see.

    Hope that gives some ideas for things to ask. Especially that one on if the THD+N would be more audible with pro hardware cranked to high dB levels, something I’ve been more interested in with looking into building a PA (even though that project would not be built until next year, if being honest).

  • 123toid

    Administrator
    November 19, 2021 at 7:15 am

    @ajc9988 I really appreciate this! I’ll absolutely try to talk about some of these with Leo. Hopefully you’ll be there, just in case. It helps to have people ask the questions as we go live as well. It’s easy to get taken off track.

    I thought I would show you guys some of the pictures of the amplifiers and the power supply. That power supply is huge. I was actually really surprised.











  • 123toid

    Administrator
    November 19, 2021 at 7:21 am

    Whoops I forgot to mention, he recently added a power rail upgrade to the site, which is pretty awesome!


  • orchardaudio

    Member
    November 19, 2021 at 1:01 pm

    Here is what a built up unit looks like with the cap upgrade….

  • tvor-ceasar

    Moderator
    November 20, 2021 at 3:04 pm

    If you see this in time, the video is live. C’mon over!


  • orchardaudio

    Member
    November 20, 2021 at 4:51 pm

    Here is the image of square wave at switch node that I discussed during the video. 

    Slew rate = 96.8V / 10nS (0.01uS) = 9680V/uS

  • orchardaudio

    Member
    November 20, 2021 at 6:08 pm

    Some high rest pics of the modules for those interested.


  • tvor-ceasar

    Moderator
    November 21, 2021 at 12:17 am

    @orchardaudio that’s a seriously fast and clean looking response there. Only a very tiny amount of overshoot that’s damped almost immediately. GaN is working superbly.


  • orchardaudio

    Member
    November 21, 2021 at 1:03 am
    Posted by: @tvor-ceasar

    @orchardaudio that’s a seriously fast and clean looking response there. Only a very tiny amount of overshoot that’s damped almost immediately. GaN is working superbly.

    It took me a few board spins to get it right. At these slew rates the parasitics of everything need to be very tightly controlled.

  • tvor-ceasar

    Moderator
    November 21, 2021 at 1:54 am
    Posted by: @orchardaudio

    It took me a few board spins to get it right. At these slew rates the parasitics of everything need to be very tightly controlled.

    Looking at the board, it’s apparent why you had to go with SMD (some of those are TINY!!!). You’d never get that response with T-H parts. Bravo!


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