Dolby Atmos Anyone? How about High Efficeincy Rear surrounds?
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New build incoming!!!
So I have been thinking I need some good…no great Dolby Atmos/Height/rear speakers. Now I have been looking around at a lot of great designs. JTR has their 110 that look interesting. Then you have DIYSG that has their Volt 10 speakers, However, they look like they are no longer stocking them. Then there is the SVS elevation. The one thing I like about all of these is that they can be used as Atmos speakers mounted on the ceiling or placed on the wall at varying heights for use of rear surround or height speakers.
Driver Choice
Since I already have all high efficiency drivers in my theater, it doesn’t make sense not to use High efficiency drivers again. I knew I wanted at least 10″. 8 inch just seemed too small and 12″ I was considering. But while looking, I came across these Celestion woofers. These are the FTX1025. Some of the key features include a demodulation ring (reduced distortion and better coherence) and has 100 degree off axis (many were only 60 degrees). It is also a driver that appears to be pretty easy to get worldwide. Which is helpful to those that live outside the US.
Box Design.
I really like the idea of a box that can be used as either a ceiling mounted speaker or wall mounted. As far as the exact angle, I haven’t narrowed that down. According to dolby spec it is typically 30-45 degrees. I am thinking of going nearer the lower (30-35 degrees). If you want a larger degree you can easily shim it
Name
Presence 10
Build Video is finished
https://youtu.be/gBIulSkck7M?si=UEH_mFnWVF17DVM8
Off Axis Measurements. These are essentially 120 degree off axis measurements. On the frequency graph you are seeing 10 degrees up to 60 degrees on one side. The polar response shows that as 60 degrees off both side, so 120 degrees. I
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Saved for build updates
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Do have box spec and build design,
Very interested in this box
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I’m still in the prototype stage. Hopefully I’ll have something more concrete nailed down this week.
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@Flycl65 That is interesting. It definitely looks very similar. It is possible it is the same one. Most of the time companies like them have a custom variant. SO I wouldn’t be surprised if the driver they use is designed just for them.
I really like their bracket design. Honestly, I did not realize they were doing atmos speakers like this. That is pretty awesome.
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Confirmed .. it was the driver before they had brought quantity to have custom, their own drivers. Since mid 2023 all speaker and subwoofer are Ascendo driver, before a lot of Celestion were used.
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That is interesting. I did not know that.
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Out of curiosity, where’d you get the box design from?
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@Darthprater It is what I came up with based off the volume the driver needs and the angle that I want. Which is currently 30 degrees. However that may change. But no matter what It will be between 30-45 degrees
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Coincidence, I’m doing something similar.
I have 4 in-ceilings that need boxes and I started designing about 3 weeks ago but getting stuck in the design phase. My design criteria includes closed, 0.7 cu ft, shallow enough to place in the ideal spot, and maybe aesthetically pleasing.So far I’ve made a couple of designs but non l find good enough. One of the earlier designs below, but more to come. I’ve only angled these 25* as the tweeter can be angled about 20* for a total of 45*.
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/sanity-check-enclosure-for-in-ceiling-speakers.3297928/#post-63232993Do you know of a good software to calculate volume from more wild designs? (I’ve been eyeing Rhino 3D)
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You can use sketchup like you currently are using. Just trace the inside and it will give you its volume.
That is a very unique design. I would like to mention that the current design looks as if you will get a lot of diffraction back towards the speaker potentially creating phase shifts and cancellations. Is there a reason you added the second part?
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Main reason is I needed more volume.
I firstly created the half with the speaker in it and it had about half of the volume I needed. Because the speaker has to be close to the ceiling and the rear wall, and angled, it’s a very tight spot (see the room layout in the AVS Post).
So I couldn’t add volume behind, above or to the right side, my option left was…in front of it.I can add it to the outer side and have it wedge shaped as it is, just longer on one side. But it will stick out from my partially lowered ceiling.
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@ikea2000 I see. Are you sure you need that much more volume? Sealed speakers are typically much more forgiving. It is possible it would create a bass hump in too small of an enclosure, but your AVR should be able to take care of that via room correction. I would consider building a test enclosure without the second part to try it out. Unless of course you know it won’t work.
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Not at all. I’m a total beginner at speakers.
The 0.7 cuFt number comes from a manual from the manufacturers website. Point 6. https://pyleaudio.com/Manuals/PIC6E.pdf
“If a defined, consistent sound is desired to yield the ideal cubic footage for the driver. Insulation would then be put in this spaceduring speaker installation. – Refer to blocking chart for details.”If you calculate the space referred to it equates to about 0.67 cu Ft or 19.0 L. I can try to make a test speaker and see how it works.
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@ikea2000 That is weird, I thought I replied to this, but I went back and it is not there. Weird.
Those are in wall speakers. With that being said,they basically never have an enclosure (basically an infinite baffle). If you can cut into your ceiling you can just cut a hole above wherever you place them and would be fine. If not, you could experiment with an open baffle. Just leave some space behind for the air to go. Not small enough for a port, but large enough that is is part of the enclosure. Ie a panel left off. So for example, leave the rear off. Honestly chances are just putting it in smaller sealed box would be fine for what you are doing as well.
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I am still working on it. I’ll try to upload some more pictures later this weekend
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Great, waiting for your x-over design if that is significant different to celestions “recommendation” 🙂
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It should be much better. Their typical recommended crossover is more for protection. I should wire it up with theirs to see the performance.
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I’m still working out the crossover, but thought I would share some pictures of the glue up. I plan to make a regular designed box as well. who doesn’t want multiple box designs?
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This looks cool already!
I may consider building them, replacing my 5 atmos with 6 of these (My Pre-Pro supports 6). Since 2 of the Atmos would be right above my theater seats, these speakers would preferably be in two different shapes – angled & cube!
Naming: I like the idea of keeping the name of the speakers independent of the parts used.
How about:
- Droid-10A: angled shaped body
- Droid-10: regular box shaped body
Or, using the mother ship & its smaller launch vehicles analogy
- Pod-10A: angled shaped body
- Pod-10: regular box shaped body
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Depends which atmos spec you try and follow. The true atmos spec requires surrounds to be flat (+3db -6db tollerance) down to 40hz
Why not 10″ AND high efficiency, we all know bigger is always better 😂
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I will pretend that I did not read your last sentence 🙃
The only reason I was shooting for 8″ is that it would amount to a smaller box, making it easier to recess them in the ceiling.
For shame, Josh! 😀
PS. I almost created another forum thread & tagged you, for the custom “215” speaker build you touched upon once. I am looking to build two full range speakers for the stereo music listening area, separate from the home theater. I wonder if you are still up for digging past threads?
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not sure if its availble in US but this might fit your needs well, 96db sens on the woofer and extends lower than the 10″
https://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=BMA8CX3ND8#
i definitely still have the final step by step build guide and 3d models from my so called ‘soundstage 215’
whilst i might not be able to remember everything that was discussed on psoted in the orignal MIA forum thread i have enough of my design documentation here to rework it and mold to your needs if you want to go that route
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I swore I responded to this @Nate but for some reason it disapperared. Interestingly enough, I orignally was going to do an 8″. But after looking around, it seems the 10″ model has always been the most sought after. SO I went with a 10″. But an 8 would be an excellent choice as well.
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👍
I am keeping an eye on this build! I may build the angled version to start with. Another project I wanna use my Maslow CNC for 😀
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Google does return some US retailers links for the speaker. And priced over 4 Benjamins, it looks slightly pricey for an Atmos speaker component. Looks interesting nonetheless! Will look at this!
I will start the SS 215 conversation elsewhere, separate from this Atmos build thread. Thanks for all the info, as usual 🙂
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If the neodymium version is too expensive there is a ferrite version too, not as low a frequency extension but VAS is less than half of neo (smaller cabinet needed) and price is only 2/3 that of neo version in UK
Look for 8CX300 *Fe* instead of *Nd*
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Fe model still has an excellently flat frequency response
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Yay! And @Chedwin saves the day again. Interestingly enough, the FE is not as widespread available!
PS. I am also looking for a super model for dating 😉
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🤣🤣🤣
Whilst I may be called a wizard of physics, psychoacoustics and electroacoustics I am not (sadly) a wizard of real world magic haha
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So in your “polite” British humor, you are saying that it would take some sort of dark magic for that to happen? Ouch, bro….. very ouch! Thanks for the vote of confidence 🤣
We need a general gossiping/socializing thread somewhere on the forum. Or, I have a feeling we will end up on St. Nick’s (@Toids_DIY_Audio) naughty list in no time 😀
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Yes, their link showed up in the search 🙂👍
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Us speaker is a great place. And they offer quite a few Horns as well. In fact I got my most recent horn that I am using in a few builds from them. The RCF HF950. A little tidbit for those that do not know. If he carries the brand and you do not see it on his site, he can most likely get it for you. So just give him a call and talk to him.
In fact, I know this from first hand experience. I was originally going to get the RCF HF96. But it has been out of stock for a long time…like over 6 months. I called RCF up and they talked me into the HF950, but I had to go back through US Speaker.
After I ordered it, he put it up on his site. Definitley give him a call sometime. He’s a really great guy who wants to help.
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Project ended ?
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No, I really need to update it sometime. It was put on hold, as you couldn’t get the drivers But the drivers jsut got back in stock! Woo Hoo! So I am back working on it again. I have one box built and am finalizing it and the crossover.
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Go go go :-))))
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How is your progress? I received my chassis 🙂
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The build is finished
https://youtu.be/gBIulSkck7M?si=UEH_mFnWVF17DVM8
I didn’t go over off-axis measurements in the video, so I thought I would post them here. These measurements go 60 degrees off axis, when you put that in a polar response that is a 120 degree off axis response. It is really good IMO.
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Hey Toid ! I was going to build your eminence beta-10cx atmos build, using eminence compression driver but I came across this build… I will use them for surrounds and back surround, wich would be better and what is the major difference between them.. keep up the good work
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Was getting ready to build these but looks like drivers are out of stock again. You should do crossovers with “same” b&c drivers jtr uses
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Definitely an option in the future.
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Bump
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hi was looking to buy the plans and the audience 212 , but has the paypal payment option been removed ?
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Ascendo 10 are ported and as front .. this is what i would do as well. I am build them ported for a friend in the next weeks but most likely active and not passive
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