Epic HiFi issues
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Hi everyone, I just finished up building a pair of The Epic HiFi speakers. I followed the plans exactly as they were written. Only difference is i added a veneer to all sides to match the front baffle. I also did not add any stuffing, which I’m in the process of doing now hoping it might help with my issue.
My issue is the passive radiators seem to be bottoming out when I’m playing music with deeper bass at moderate volumes.
I added exactly 50g of mass to each passive radiator measured with accurate scales. Enclosure was built exactly from the cut sheet. I have tripled checked for any leaks and everything seems to be sealed properly.
Has anyone else experienced this issue?
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Could changing the passive radiators weight to maybe around 35g each help this problem? I’m aware it would change the tuning but they sound horrible currently on deeper bass notes
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That is odd. You are the first person to mention that. What frequencies are you playing that is causing this? How much power are you giving it? SOmething seems odd here. Let’s see if we can dig to the bottom of it.
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Ok. The frequencies I will have to double check.
As far as power I was running it off a Denon X3800H receiver. I did have to turn the volume up louder than I normally do to achieve around the same listening level. But I thought that might have been because the sensitivity is less than the speakers Iv been running. Which are some studio monitors I found for cheap.
This was the first time Iv built a crossover but I’m very educated in schematics and electronics so I wouldn’t think I messed that up.
I’m reading around 3.8Ohms at the input terminals, does that seem correct?
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this is what it looks like using DATS V3
Not sure if this helps at all but figured id post it
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The tuning looks right. I wonder if the 3800 is EQing the low end up, which is causing the issue. Can you try running them in pure direct mode while stereo listening to see if that is the issue?
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The Denon has all EQ’ing off, all high/low pass filters disabled AKA running in Full Range mode.
Im currently running it through the Denons pre-outs to a CARVER M-1.0t amp and it makes the bottoming out noise under 31Hz. Running a tone generator through my iphone using Bluetooth. So I understand using a CD or something might give better results. Anyways it Sounds fine at 31Hz go down to 30Hz I can start to hear it and the lower the frequency the louder/more pronounced it gets.
Now im not saying these speakers dont sound great, from the little bit of listening iv been able to do im adjusting to the sound, as they are different sounding than the speakers I was using. I actually like them a lot. I was more or less wondering if I possible did something wrong or if this was normal. Personally I have never seen/heard a speaker of this size play near as low and clear as these do so im guessing this is normal?
also I did end up putting a little rockwell on the inside wall and reduced the weight on the passive radiators to 35g including the bolt that holds the washers on. Im going to experiment and see if there is any difference using 35g vs 50g as far as the bottoming out goes. I do feel like I can hear a slight difference but the DATS curve looked al,ost if not identical with 35g vs 50g. But im very new to the DATS and could be missing something. idk
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It doesn’t sound like you are doing anything wrong. One thing I will say is that at 200w, you would expect some issues around 30hz. But I am not sold that is what is going on. However, if you still have the issue, we can always talk about upgrading your PR’s to some that are higher excursion due to your wattage. That is possible. HAving said all that, you typically have a high pass on these around 30hz. You could possibly go lower depending on your setup.
One thing I would consider first though, is to run Audyssey and see if you Denon increases your preamp output. I would not be surprised if it did and if that would help. If not, then you can look into a high pass.
And if you are unsure, feel free to DM me and we can look at it together.
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Thanks for the response. there’s no way im feeding these things 200watts. I will run Audacity and see what that does. I will update you tomorrow and weigh the options.
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I honestly didn’t think you were either. Not unless you were in a huge warehouse trying to fill the room. You’re welcome to send pictures as well, so we can see if there is anything out of sorts that we can see.
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OK, so I have a strange update to this issue. So the previous issue was with the first speaker i completed of the pair i was making. I finished the second speaker today and it does NOT have the same bottoming out issue. Even feeding it more power. I can get it close to bottoming out (with a significant amount of power) but the first speaker starts showing this issue (audibly) at about half the power.
So theirs obviously something going on with the first speaker. I built them identical (I think), Thoughts?
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Just to make sure it is the speaker. Have you tried it by swapping the channels of the amplifier? Run the one that is having the issue on the left channel versus the right?
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yes I have tried different speaker outputs, also have plugged each speaker into the same output separately and the one speaker definitely bottoms out much easier than the other speaker. I will have to take it apart and have a closer look I guess.
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Let us know what you find. Or if you have trouble locating anything of issue.
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<div>Found the issue, apparently i was sent i defective PR. were the spider is glued to the cone there is a section with what looks like a hole, but believe it was never properly glued and has came apart. will try and attach a photo.</div><div>
The worst part is these PR’s were on back order for months along with a few other crossover components, So i waited months and months to finally be able to finish these speakers and it looks like I will be waiting a little longer.
I have to add im loving these speakers, the bass is so impressive for what size speakers are driving them, it puts a large grin on my face when I have them turned up to the max!!
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I had a suspicion it was an issue with the PR and its spider. No control over the excursion.
I am going to suggest a possible way to “fix” it for the time being. Get some good, somewhat flexible glue, akin to Shoe Goo, and reattach the spider to the cone. You can see where it detached. Just follow the line of the old glue, using something to reach in there, and apply a good enough amount to hold it together. Press the spider and cone together until dry, usually a day or so. then reinstall and test. If it works, great. Still get the replacement PR, but at least you’ll be enjoying the fruits of your labor. If it doesn’t work, you’re no worse off than you are now.
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lol, That was the first thing I did, used E6000 glue. Its drying up now
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I am glad to hear you are loving them. That is crazy that the PR was damaged. I actually have never seen that on a PR. BUt it definitely looks like a factory defect. I would contact PE to get a replacement. I am sure they will take care of you.
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They are indeed providing a replacement at no cost.
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Excellent! It will be nice when you get both working properly 😄
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Just to bring closure to this thread, The issue was indeed a faulty PR. Parts Expresses promptly sent me a replacement no questions asked.
I have yet to change out the PR because I honestly don’t remember which one was faulty. After gluing the spider back in place everything has sounded perfect!
EPIC speakers indeed!
Im a sucker for bass and at the end of Toids YouTube build video he mentions he doesn’t think a subwoofer is needed with these speakers. I laughed inside and thought “he doesn’t know me”. To my complete amazement I now agree with that statement. The low end sounds very clean and digs deep while still playing with authority! Running my sub just muffles the sound making it sound worst overall. I must add that my listening room is on the smaller side with regular 8ft ceilings so I know that helps bring out the bass. In my old house which had an open floor plan and vaulted ceilings these speakers would most likely need a subwoofer but honestly I would go with different speakers altogether in that setup.
Sry for the rant, Bottom line I’m Loving these speakers and glad I got the opportunity to get them finished.
P.S. Toid would still like your thoughts on a possible beefier PR that would work with these speakers.
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@audio-alien That is great to hear! Glad you are enjoying them! I really do love those speakers. So far, I haven’t heard a complaint about them (besides the faulty PR 😉 ). That was so odd that that occurred. You can upgrade the PR’s, I do not recommend the Epique PR’s though. They were designed a little different than regular PR’s and because of that they act differently and you would want to DSP your low end. The first one that I can think of is this. It would add more cost to the build. I haven’t personally checked if the depth would work, but the cutout size should be similar (once again I haven’t checked). If something like that interests you, let me know and I can see what I can figure out via software.
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This update looks great.
Cutout are 208 mm for the DSA215 and 213 mm for the RSS210. For four times the price, is it a four time improvement ?
I am interested by this update : could you please send me the update ? I’ll maybe do it later.
Thanks.
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I don’t think it is personally necessary at all. But for thsoe that want to try it they could. I never did check it out, since I never heard back from @audio-alien
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I agree, since I have had my PA replaced with a non defective unit, I see absolutely no need to “upgrade” the passive Radiator.
I have tested these speakers a lot harder than I probably should and the woofers seem to start distorting/bottoming out about the same time as the PA’s start to. You can hear the woofers reaching there limits before you can hear the PA’s bottoming out.
So for 4x the price, no thanks, I find it hard to believe these speakers could sound any better than they’re current design. If you have been considering building these i highly recommend you do, and build them the way they’re currently designed and you will be amazed.
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Thank you for this clear answer.
As you said, it’s probably not worth the money to upgrade. Can’t wait to receive my speakers and filter elements.
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I would contact PE to get a replacement.
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This reply was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by
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