December 3, 2021 at 7:51 pm #14907
I recently upgraded my laptop to the asus x515, and I am currently attempting to install DATS V3 onto it. I’ve having a strange issue though, the test graph that I’m getting after shorting the clips doesn’t look anything like it used to on my old one, instead I’m getting this
The impedance test graph seems ok but I can’t figure out why the above is happening. I have noticed that in the microphone settings this new laptop doesn’t have the option for 16bit 44100hz, it only goes up to fm radio quality. Can someone please help?
December 3, 2021 at 9:09 pm #14908
@Dameo182 – So, I know nothing of Win 11 and where they are hiding the settings. I would love to help, but without understanding the new OS, I cannot step you through to fix the settings. Do they have a way to open the classic control panel?
The best start will be trying to open windows for sound settings and take pictures for me to understand where they are hiding their settings. Without that, I cannot determine where they are hiding the toggle for those settings. Also goes to show, newer isn’t always better. Until Windows 11, I always was an early adopter. But Windows 8 was crap and I wasted money on it, so when I hear Win 11 literally has ads it pops up at you, I wouldn’t touch it. After Win 10, I’m going Linux.
In any case, I’m going to have to see pics in order to help navigate you.
That page has enough instructions that you should be able to get to the older looking menus to setup device parameters for both playback and microphone (you’ll need to setup both).
December 3, 2021 at 10:28 pm #14909
Thanks for taking the time to reply, my problem is though that I have found the place where the settings should be, only they aren’t there. The option of 16bit 44100hz doesn’t exist in the drop down menus
Im not sure if it even matters tbh, but I ran through the set up guide for DATS and it says that the Re number should be within 995 and 1000 when testing the clips attatched to the built in pins. Only I get a range of numbers, every time I run the test I get a different value, I had 1070, 965,972 then I gave up since I’m convinced this laptop doesn’t want to run it. The graph I posted earlier has also changed when shorting the clips, surely the graphs should be consistantly the same at least, even if the numbers were wrong I would assume the same value should be produced each time?
So a recap of the ussues are
• Changing imoedance values with each test
• not having the right bit rate choice anywhere in the settings for the usb input
December 3, 2021 at 10:37 pm #14910
Oh I should also add that at the time of those pictures I was running windows 10, after being unable to fix it I decided to upgrade to 11 thinking maybe that one woukd work. It didn’t, in fact there was no change to my results at all
I now dread the thought of trying to instal and run omnimic
December 3, 2021 at 10:39 pm #14911
@dameo182 – So, I have had that issue crop up before. Oddly enough, it is like an errata for taking in the information and figuring out how to interpret it.
This will sound pedantic, but have you tried rebooting the computer? Not lying, many times when the readings are acting really weird, it can be a misloaded generic driver, which rebooting is an easy way to reload those. I know the “off and on” trope of computer troubleshooting, but I would say give that a try. It also can be effected if left plugged in or plugged in after rebooting (I forgot which worked best for me). I use mine connected through a USB hub, so that is what has caused some of my issues and why I am recommending it (not trying to talk down to anyone). I just haven’t had it connected in a month or two, so I cannot remember exactly which way I did it.
But, it not giving options for the higher fidelity does suggest something is off in a loaded driver somewhere.
December 3, 2021 at 10:45 pm #14912
I have restarted the laptop quite a few times as I was doing updates of anything I could find that needed it still with no success, but as you mentioned, I did leave the dats plugged in so I will try a rebboot with it removed. Other than trying to find driver add ons or sonething I’m not sure what else to try
December 3, 2021 at 10:51 pm #14913
December 3, 2021 at 11:08 pm #14914
@dameo182 – So, confirmed it is a generic USB Composite Device driver in the Universal Serial Bus controllers drop down in device manager. Pretty sure port will vary with your device (depending on where plugged in on the device, because the system maps out the ports and hubs for routing signals, so mine should not match yours).
There also could be a permissions issue. Have you restricted microphone for apps at all on your device? Also, what settings are you using for Exclusive Mode (the square under where the default format is located)? Wondering if you have set it for exclusive and another app is grabbing it. Do you have USB Audio Codec Speakers and Line In set for default? If you didn’t select speakers for USB audio codec, then the signal being sent isn’t running out to the dats to run across the 1K Ohm resistor, which then you cannot get the reading.
Trying to think what other things need considered because when I first plugged in my DATS, I couldn’t get it to work at ALL and had to go through all of this. I disable microphone in NTLite, where I make custom Windows images, so I had to go in, enable microphone, etc.
Also, even though it is a generic USB audio codec, we might want to try installing a broad codec on your system as a catch all if these things do not address it. Something like Shark007 or whichever codec pack flavor is popular these days (tells my age).
December 3, 2021 at 11:10 pm #14915
December 4, 2021 at 12:18 am #14916
Thanks for all your time writing that out, after reading through it and trying again with the laptop I managed to find an udate for the drivers, windows 11 doesn’t update everything in the main upload, so now I have the correct cd quality on the recorder part of the settings. Whether it will still be there next time I open the laptop is another matter, but for now I think that part is resolved. I’m going to give DATS another try in the morning as it’s late here now, ill post the results once I’ve run the test.
I have a box of resistors for circuit practice, which I bought to put together a summing circuit for a mono bluetooth speaker I’m building, so I may see if I can use a 1k to test and see if the DATS might be faulty, but that would take a bit of trail and error as I’m not sure how to set that up. But as I said before, I’m not completely sure it’s reading wrong. From the way the setup guide was written it seemed as though you retest until you get a reading between 995 and 1000 and then you know it’s calabrated right, but that doesn’t seem that likely to me, it seems more likely that my readings are just wrong. Anyway, thanks again for the help, ill be in touch tomorrow 👍
December 4, 2021 at 1:03 am #14917
@dameo182 – What matters is we are making progress! We have the driver situation somewhat defined if not fixed.
Now, with DATS, you can also have one of two models, G or H. Under Edit, then preferences inside of the DATS program drop down menus, you have at the bottom the Hardware Version. Please select which one for your device. Mine is an H, seen with the screws on the side and the letter H painted on the bottom corner on the underside of the chassis. Selecting the wrong version can cause incorrect readings as well.
Just wanted to mention that for when you start back up tomorrow. Always good to run down the checklist of settings.
Take care and rest easy! If you have a multimeter, you should try reading the resistance on that as a sanity check. If your multimeter is accurate and the resistance reading is the same as the DATS is getting (within a reasonable margin), then the resistor in the DATS is off and it doesn’t matter. Always good to come up with sanity checks as well.
December 4, 2021 at 2:24 am #14918Steven MParticipant
Not having read the entire thread, I’m going to throw my 2 cents in, so you know what that is worth, and add that you might want to take ownership of the directory where application is located. I know NOTHING about the program but some applications will like to write to the application directory and not the app data directory. This will sometime cause an issue with Windows 10/11. You can download the reg hack here that will add the command to your right click menu options to take ownership of the selected directory in File Explorer.
There are also links to details on how you can do this manually on that same page. In case you are uncomfortable with running a Reg hack.
Its may not have anything to do with your issue but I had this happen in the past and taking ownership of the directory will not hurt anything if it isn’t the problem.
Also, and I have not gone through each line of this thred so my apologies if this was already mentioned but was this an upgrade to Win11 or a clean install. Both have issues and drivers may have been updated or not loaded at all depending on the type of install you did. When upgrading from one OS to another it is highly recommended you do a clean install of the OS. You do not have to but it’s a good idea as it allows Windows to install, well… cleanly.
Ok so that was my two cense worth and probably not worth two cents. Pardon the interruption from the peanut gallery. I now return you to your regularly scheduled programing.
December 4, 2021 at 3:28 pm #14919
Thanks for taking the time, it seems that it was an issue with the driver updates, I can now select 16bit 44100hz in the menus after updating that particular driver. It hadn’t been done during the upgrade to windows 11. But that fix hasn’t helped with my DATS readings, I am still getting the wrong values as I will show below, thanks again
December 4, 2021 at 3:31 pm #14920
So I’ve been messing with this again today and even though, having checked that it is set to H, I’m still getting the wrong reading during the shorting test. The setup guude says it should show as no more than 1ohm but I’m getting around 2ohms. I also have the screen showing white now which I’ve no idea why? Even after uninstalling and reinstalling the dats software
Sorry for the shitty image, I post using my phone so it’s easier to take a picture then upload it
December 4, 2021 at 3:43 pm #14921
@dameo182 – I like pulling up the Snipping Tool to do quick screenshots, personally. But that is also due to using a 50in TV as a monitor and a 22″ in portrait.
That is strange (regarding going to white now and for that slant).
Have you rebooted this morning (or even better, full shut-down, then restart, as laptops can do weird things with suspend/hibernate where the drivers stay loaded in the image moved to the hard-drive from memory, so it doesn’t always clear and load the drivers fresh)?
Do you have a multimeter? (either way, we know the software is reading incorrectly, but just double checking to see if there is a hardware issue, which happens).
December 4, 2021 at 3:52 pm #14923
So, as you can see, the short leads resistance I get is 0.72939 Ohms. This is what you want, nice and low. 2 Ohms is a bit high. So I would double check, after all that, that the output and microphone are still set correctly. Then, remember you should connect the DATS BEFORE opening the DATS program.
After you have the test lead shorts value, then run the 1KHz impedance calibration. It should be solid like shown above. Mine read 1000.8. The truth is, they are using a good quality resistor and the variance there is within 0.1% (1 in 1000). That is within a tight enough tolerance that I am not concerned. Not only that, how you clip the test leads together for the short test and onto the posts on the DATS can effect the value returned slightly. So if in a ballpark (like mine, not what we are seeing with yours at the moment), then we are good.
Here is running those again:
Once again, 1000.5 Ohms, so literally within the 0.5 mentioned, just higher, not lower. Getting 999.5-1000 is fine, but if you are within that range over (0.5+/-), it should be fine.
Edit 2: also, since you are getting 2 Ohm on the short-leads test, I would recommend disconnecting all of the wires and making sure they are firmly seated. If you are not fully seated, or the contact is bad, then the resistance will be higher in the short leads test.
December 4, 2021 at 4:02 pm #14924
I managed to get it back to a black screen, it was just a view setting, but as for that slant I’ve no idea why it won’t register correctly. Had no issues on my old computer but this one just will not play fair. Also I dont have a multimetre on hand, wouldn’t know how to test it either tbh, I haven’t really needed one until now. I’m most annoyed that I literally need this just to do a quuck impedance check on a finished speaker before I take a frequency response, just to check I wired everything correctly but it’s turning out to be an absolute nightmare 😂
December 4, 2021 at 4:07 pm #14925
@dameo182 – I added this as an edit, but it really should be checked:
also, since you are getting 2 Ohm on the short-leads test, I would recommend disconnecting all of the wires and making sure they are firmly seated. If you are not fully seated, or the contact is bad, then the resistance will be higher in the short leads test.
I’m taking it the alligator clips are clean (if not, find that rubbing alcohol and clean). That makes me think something might not be seated right. Check that nothing is in the red and black orifices, then make sure to seat the leads fully into their respective slots.
December 4, 2021 at 5:12 pm #14926
December 4, 2021 at 5:18 pm #14927
Just taken the impedance test too and got 999.9, this is soo strange, I haven’t changed anything other than messing with the volume on the line in 🤔
December 4, 2021 at 5:26 pm #14928
@dameo182 – Other than that little increase at the end when you did the short test, it looks fine. Part of the difference otherwise may come down to volume settings in the OS, etc.
You also reseated the cables. Believe it or not, improperly seated cables has caused much more anomalous results. Anyone going back to the 90s and before with computers could tell you that. Hell, with signal integrity, think of how many times you accidentally nudge an HDMI cable and the screen goes black. Sometimes, it is just something little.
But, it does seem like you are in the ballpark now. That is a good start. You can either try to continue playing with the cable shorts and volume settings to try to narrow down the differences (which could come down to supplier of the cables from us buying our DATS at different times), or you can now do your readings, which should be good enough that you can use them, considering low resistance on shorting leads and proper reading of the resistor in the DATS.
December 4, 2021 at 5:38 pm #14929
I decided to try running a sweep on my speaker, I think I have made a mistake somewhere after looking at the result, this is a small MTM, ported and without any stuffing, I’m not sure what the big peak is at around 4k. It is where the crossover lies but I didnt think it affected impedance like that. I think i see a small standing wave, but that disappeared with stuffing on the others I made of this design. This is the 3rd I’ve made, I just dont remember ever having that big peak on the others, but I could have, it was 9 months since I tested those other ones
December 4, 2021 at 5:39 pm #14930
December 4, 2021 at 5:49 pm #14931
@dameo182 – I’d have to have so much more information and, unfortunately, do not have time to run down what you are seeing on your results at the moment.
What I can say is you might try, for moving forward, creating a folder per project that will have all of the readings from beginning to end in it. That way if you ever try doing it again (like you are here having said you have done this 2x before), you can immediately pull up the files to get a sanity check on what you are seeing.
Do you have saved readings on your other computer from the prior two boxes? If you do, it might be worth pulling those files from that system to your new one just to have side by sides.
Another thing I do, aside from exporting results, is to use the snipping tool to take screenshots. The reason for this is so I can pull up the visual representation of the data quickly to compare instead of loading and having multiple projects open on the desktop. If it looks right there, then there usually isn’t a reason to open the project in the software and dive deeper. But that is just one of my shorthand techniques. (Note- if doing this, make sure graphs use the same scales, otherwise you are not comparing like to like and even though the curves look similar, the scales being off means they are not the same).
In any case, I’ll be floating around on the forums and will keep an eye out for if you need more help. I can’t guarantee an answer, but…
Now back to nursing this issue with my eustachian tubes and cite checking a document for publication.
December 4, 2021 at 5:59 pm #14932
Yeah they’re all good ideas, I did at one point do most of tgat when doing earlier tests, but when my old laptop died I lost everything, so trying to recall if ut had tge same rise at 4k.
Just a quick one, if that chart is right, does that impedance chart look ok to you? As in nothing majorly wrong with it? As I’m still learning about the crossovers etc I always like to get constructive critisism, the ones ive made in the past have been working without issue, many people have taken the speakers to listen to and to give me their verdict and all have said they sound amazing. But im a perfectionist and want to make something that is electricaly sound too.
And I hope your feeling better soon!
December 4, 2021 at 6:16 pm #14933
@dameo182 – I would defer to others with more experience than myself at interpretation of that data. Depending on the drivers, the crossover components, etc., it could be just fine. But without a full rundown on all of the drivers and components, I just would not be comfortable saying whether it “looks right.” Due to that, I cannot give a firm answer. I do apologize about that.
Edit: A way to sanity check would be to run DATS on each driver on their own, then in the box (for the woofer) to see the behavior with the port influence on impedance, and then with the crossover in place for seeing the tweeter, woofer, and box tuning all on the same graph. By having each separate, you can better see how the components are influencing each other, which should allow you to better tell if something is going off the rails, so to speak.
December 4, 2021 at 6:23 pm #14934
Thanks for your honesty, I assume its ok since it goes up and not down, meaning the speaker still has a minimum of 4ohms load, but personally I would like to see it flatter. Anyway enjoy the rest of your day and thank you for all of your help, hopefully the software continues to work ok for me.
December 4, 2021 at 6:25 pm #14935
@dameo182 – I just wrote this edit, but wanted to make sure you saw it:
A way to sanity check would be to run DATS on each driver on their own, then in the box (for the woofer) to see the behavior with the port influence on impedance, and then with the crossover in place for seeing the tweeter, woofer, and box tuning all on the same graph. By having each separate, you can better see how the components are influencing each other, which should allow you to better tell if something is going off the rails, so to speak.
Edit: So at least 4 tests:
2) Tweeter (assuming sealed already, not in its own compartment, but adjust as needed for your build)
3) Woofer in box
4) Woofer + Tweeter + crossover
December 4, 2021 at 6:58 pm #14936
Yeah that’s a good call, I’ll definately do that with the next one I build, i have a copper clad one half done. I’ll be hard pressed to do all those checks on this one as everything us fitted and soldered in place, I would have to completely take it apart to do that and I just don’t have the time. I’ve been waiting for parts for 3 months due to covid and I finally got them last week. So the person has been on my case about delivery time of this speaker. The more I think about the more I think that graph is accurate, If the frequency response is nice and flat then it must be, ill know tomorrow if i can instal omnimic without a week of fixes to this new laptop 😂.
December 7, 2021 at 5:57 am #14977
December 7, 2021 at 12:43 pm #14982
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