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Well, I bit the bullet and am going to give this a whirl. I’ve ordered 2 amps, the JAB2-50 and the JAB3-1100 along with an interface kit for the Digital Signal processing. There are a couple of YouTube videos from Sure/Wondom showing how it’s done but they are really vague IMO. Hope I can figure this out, if not, may need some help guys. From what I’ve researched so far, there’s a free software from Sigma Studios I’ll need to download in order to do the DSP programming.
If this works like I hope, should open up a lot of opportunities for others to try in their projects if they like. My initial project is a 2.1 set of desktops that somewhat mimic the Boenicke W5’s. For some reason, I’ve always been enamored with that design and think it would be fun to do a DIY version with a slight twist, Active instead of Passive. Active will allow me to take full advantage of the small form factor without sacrificing what the drivers are capable of doing in a much larger proper enclosure. I’ve attached a screenshot of the order from Sure in case anyone else wants to join in on this fun. Also a pic of the Boenicke W5 for reference. My plan for the cabinets is a translam layup, seems like the obvious choice to incorporate the mid chamber and port if I go the ported route. Updates to this thread will probably take a while guys but I’ll try to keep you informed as I move along. Let me know what you think, thanks.
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Here’s a picture of the inside of the Boenicke W5 for reference. I’ll be adding two amplifiers to an already cramped enclosure, sounds like fun.
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Kevin,
I love this project and responded back to your PM. Sorry it took a while. One of the craziest weeks ever. But I am with you. I have always been enamored with the Boenike W5. What I find fascinating as well is their frequency response and simplicity of the build. If I remember correctly, the only use 1st order crossovers on all their drivers. And they build their enclosure out of two chunks of solid wood. I love everything about those speakers.
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Thanks Nick! Just a heads up for the rest of the guys, Nick and I have talked in a PM and we are going to do this project as a collaboration. Between the two of us, I now feel much more confident we’ll be able to achieve the W5 clone so to speak. Although it may look similar, I believe it will actually outperform the Boenicke version by quite a bit! Should be a fun yet challenging project and I’m looking forward to it! Hope you guys enjoy following along, all input is welcome.
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Will be following this, at least for the coolness factor.
Kevin, quick question, you aren’t perhaps from SE PA, at least when you were a kid? I went to school with someone of your name.
Nope, been in Texas all my life. I did spend a Winter in Iowa back in the late 80’s. One Winter there was enough to convince me to high tail it back to Texas, lol. I’d rather deal with the heat then the cold.
Hope you enjoy following along. This thread will probably be more about the Sure amplifier boards and how to program the DSP settings into them. We’ll start another thread later for the speakers.
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Well then, glad to meet you! Have extended family in Texas, plus that’s where my in-laws are interred. One of my favorite magazines hails from Rockport.
I’m definitely interested in learning about the DSP boards and how to maximize their use. I’m currently running all analog except for initial source(s). Sounds like a good time to get started.
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Well then, glad to meet you! Have extended family in Texas, plus that’s where my in-laws are interred. One of my favorite magazines hails from Rockport.
I’m definitely interested in learning about the DSP boards and how to maximize their use. I’m currently running all analog except for initial source(s). Sounds like a good time to get started.
Nice to meet you too. We’ll post some updates as soon as we can, stay tuned!
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@Kevin-Kendrick I noticed you bought the ADAU1701 and not theICP3. Unless I am missing something, you only need toe ICP3 to DSP the Jab3 boards. You need the ADAU1701 for other boards. It isn’t the most clear. Let me know your thoughts.
Edit to include Vide: https://youtu.be/-vQsGYfodEI
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Nick, I’m not 100% positive, to be honest. Near impossible to find more information on their website. They reference some documents but when I go to the “download” tab of their website, nothing comes up. I haven’t been able to completely figure out which boards you need, if not all of them. The ICP3 works with a phone app they offer and it has Bluetooth built into the board as well for programming it with the app. I’m under the impression the ADAU1701 is the primary board required to re-program their DSP amps and the ICP3 is an optional “In-circuit” board that one could dedicate to a design to have the real-time flexibility to make changes on the fly with the phone app. However, like I said, I’m not 100% sure and this is definitely “case in point” that they are doing a terrible job of promoting what could be a fantastic product. Everything is so vague, even with the videos. And without the possibility of being able to download some more literature from their site, it’s going to be a game of hit and miss until we figure it out. Sorry I couldn’t be more help man.
BTW, to prove how confused I am, I tried later to go back and buy the ICP3 by itself. The website wouldn’t allow me to do it, not sure why unless they have a minimum order qty required. If you decide to go ahead and get it, buy 2 of them if they’ll let you and I’ll PayPal you for the extra one, thanks.
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Just giving you a heads up Nick. They are out of the 100 watt mono boards and it will be 2-3 weeks before they have them produced again. They asked if I could wait. I replied and asked if they could replace the mono board with one more of the JAB2-50. Hope to hear something back late this evening. I’m primarily interested in getting one of the amps as soon as possible in order to start learning what’s required to program them.
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@kevin-kendrick They did and are sending me an ICP3 board. THey had to do a paypal invoice to set it up. Funny thing, I think they were getting us confused in the e-mails. Because they told me they were out of the mono board and it would be 2-3 weeks. I was really confused I why they told me that. I reminded them, I only wanted the ICP3 for now, lol.
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Nick, I forgot to ask. Did they clarify whether the ICP3 was required to re-program the chips on their amplifiers. Came across another thread on the web and it looked like the guy was only using the ADAU1701 along with the extension board like I bought.
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@kevin-kendrick according to this video:
You need the ICP3 for thei JAB boards and the ADAU1701 with extension board for any other amplifier. At least that is what it looks like.
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Finally found a better video. Here is one where he goes through it around 3:30. https://youtu.be/VtykrKAPJDk
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Yep, I’ve seen it and agree that if you were using another brand of amplifiers, like the Dayton KAB’s, the ICP3, ADAU1701 and extension board would be required. I’m still of the impression that only the ADAU1701 is required to use the Sigma software and reprogram the chips on the Sure JAB amps. Like you said, we’ll figure it out once we have some parts to play with. Did you order any amp boards or only the ICP3?
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Sorry @123toid, you posted that last video link while I was still typing. I’ve only watched a couple of minutes of it so far and it looks like he may have been using some of their first generation stuff. The ICP3 didn’t have Bluetooth and the ADAU1701 now looks completely different from what he has. Oh well, I’m going to go ahead and order one of the ICP3’s, better safe than sorry.
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Ah I see. We are both in agreement. They really need more clarification on their end. It looks and sounds like their JAB3 boards already have the ADAU1701 built into them, which is why you just need the ICP3, 2 or 1 or any of those to communicate with the computer and the board. but It looks like, as you said, the ADAU1701 can hook up as well. So it really seems like either could be used with a JAB3 board. I am still unsure on the JAB2 board. If it needs the ADAU1701. It doesn’t mention it being built-in, so it just might need that.
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I saw this today and was thinking it might be helpful: https://eclipseaudio.com/fir-filter-guide/
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Yes, very interesting stuff Nick. Hoping my ICP3 gets here soon, I’ve already cut and built a test cabinet for some new desktops and am looking forward to playing around with the amps capabilities. This first pair will be using all SB Acoustic drivers, the 4″ Ceramic and the new SB21 tweeter which is getting rave reviews by everyone that has used them. I would post a picture of the prototype but the “Max file size” is now 2K, not sure how to get my pictures formatted down to that size.
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I’m no expert by any means, but at first glance, these boards look to be very well built. They may be using inferior parts in certain places, I wouldn’t know simply because of my ignorance of the components required. Will say all of the soldering looks good, packaging was professional and service has been great so far. As for negatives, if I had to name any, SURE seems to be having difficulty communicating or conveying everything needed for this particular application and the marketing for this DSP line of boards is marginal at best. You can’t even order all of the parts required directly off their site, Nick and I both had to email to order the ICP3’s.
IMO, it should be a product that’s on fire (sales wise) but there’s just not enough information available yet to get more guys hooked. Hopefully Nick and I can figure some of it out so we can share with others who might be interested in taking the plunge.
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Bummer. Looks like we both have one half of what we need and can’t move forward. I have an extra amp if you want to borrow it for a while to start playing with the software. Let me know.
I think my ICP3 should be here early next week but I’ll need to double check the tracking for updates.
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Yeah. They really dropped the ball, but they have been good about getting everything straightened out. So hopefully, this will be a minor bump in the road. I am just glad it wasn’t for a large quantity shipment 😆 I emailed them and am hoping to hear back from them tonight. Hopefully, they can just ship another order out soon. It seems fairly clear it was either never dropped off or it was lost. I’ll see what they have to say.
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Hi man, I have also started a plan on building a speaker system with the ADAU1701 DSP form Wondom. I’ve been looking for a few days now and there is this ones guy on youtube that has done some work. If you can get a hold of him, he might help you out.
removed link ;t=1263s
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Hi again. Actually sure only designs the DSP hardware. The company that produced the software and also produced some ADAU1701 board is http://www.analog.com. They have some videos on youtube but they are not of much help neither. But it’s good to watch to have some basics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihBhGDcYYKs
Also there are some german speaking videos that shows more about that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abI1r4i8hHI&t
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAosIrmZzR8
The Leo Lautsprecher channel even responds if you make a question on his video. And the video is from 2016.
Hope I have helped and that you can help me later once you get the hand of this software.. I am completely lost.
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As far as I could learn you need the ICP3 board just to reprogram the ADAU1701 inside JAB3 amp or the independent logic board that incorporates ADAU1701 as well, using the computer software SIGMA. There are different versions of the communicating board but they all do the same thing.
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I am not suire what the link was, but it was removed automatically. If you want to pm me the link, I’ll edit your original post.
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Hi man. I enjoy your channel on YouTube a lot. I updated the post and removed the WWW and I think you can check it now.
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Hi guys. I’ve just found a forum on the analog.com web site. On that forum there is all sorts of stuff related to programing all of their DSPs and a lot of things specifically regarding the ADAU1701. People use that DSP for all sorts of things.
ez.analog.com/dsp/sigmadsp/f/q-a/64755/guitar-reverb-and-adau-1701
UPDATE: This one guy Dave Thib posted a link to downsload of his base project with two way crossover. It’s pretty good to have an ideia of how the DSP works.
ez.analog.com/dsp/sigmadsp/f/q-a/64236/2-way-crossover-for-adau1701
This is the link for download: ez.analog.com removed link
I seem not to be able to post the link for download. How can I send a private message to you @123toid ?
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I seem not to be able to post the link for download. How can I send a private message to you @123toid ?
I updated the settings, so you should be able to do it now. When I was on vacation, it looks like a few things updated and changed some settings. In the future, the easiest way to send a PM, is to click on the persons forum name. This will open their profile. From their, at the top right you will see a grey box labeled “send message”. That will set you up to send a private message to that user.
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Thanks man, the more information we can round up, the better.
My ICP3 finally arrived today, so it’s time to start getting a little more serious about the project. Will probably spend a good bit of time studying this weekend and then see what I can accomplish with the Sigma software and Sure amps.
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Got it. Thanks man.
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Nice!!. I´m really curious to hear your feedback. I see that in some of the projects that people on that forum do regarding a 2.1 interface the make use of some loops and some stuff that I have no clue of why they did that. My knowledge in electronics and programing is ZERO. I´m trying to read more about it but it seem greek to me. Good luck there.
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Oh this is the link for the download of the 2way project that was found in the forum.
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Hi Kevin. just now going over some questions on the comments section of WONDOMs youtube channel, I’ve found the default settings of the ADAU1701 DSP. In case you erase it there is no way to get it back. Here follows the link for the original DSP settings for SIGMA STUDIO. I guess you just need to compile it and upload to your system. I think you can even add some stuff to the original program such as equalizer and other things that I have no clue about lololo.
http://store.sure-electronics.com/product/AA-AP23122
Scroll down to PROODUCT RESUME and select DESCRIPTION and downloads the first one:
http://47.89.193.76/images//documents/APM2_SigmaStudio.zip
and this is the second one, a firmware that I have no clue what it is for:
http://47.89.193.76/images//documents/APM2_SigmaStudio_V2.0.zip
Also reading through the documentations provided: https://www.analog.com/en/products/adau1701.html#product-documentation
I found that with the ADAU1701 APM2 DSP board you can implement buttons such as volume up/down, mute, LED lights and other stuff. The DSP has more then 10 programable functions. It´s just not clear to me how to implement them. Below follows the link to the documentation regarding the implementation of such functions.
https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/AN-951.pdf
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Awesome! Looking forward to working on this project with you. Let me know when you’re ready to start. I realize you’ve got the big move to take care of first and whatever other projects you may already have in the works, so no rush. I’ll start trying to figure out what I can as soon as the Daytonas are finished.
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I’ve been reading this thread and interested to see what you are able to do. I looked at the Sure boards before, but the current offerings don’t quite fit my needs. The ADAU1701 is a DSP chip with two ADCs and 4 DACs supporting 2x in to 4x out making it great for stereo two-way speakers. The ADAU1701 requires a microcontroller to interface with the DSP. That’s what the ICP3 board is from Sure. However, from what I can tell, the ICP3 only interfaces with their mobile app via Bluetooth and does not allow programming straight from Sigma Studio. If this is not the case, and you are able to communicate with the ICP3 board via a computer with Sigma Studio, these little boards have the potential to be a game changer for DIY DSP systems at their price point.
A few of the Sure amplifiers have the ADAU1701 built in, meaning only the ICP3 board is needed to program the DSP. If you are not using an amplifier with built in DSP, you need the ADAU1701 plus the extension board for your 2 in, 4 out signals. You then connect the output from the extension board to your regular amplifier.
It would be awesome to see a 2 channel DSP amplifier with a 100 watt output on one channel for the woofer. With Sure’s max power ratings at 10% THD on a 3 or 4 ohm load, the 2x 50 watt board with DSP doesn’t have enough low distortion power for an 8 ohm woofer at louder levels. A 50 watt + 100 watt DSP amp from Sure at their prices plus the ability to use Sigma Studio with the ICP3 board would be a game changer for active 2 ways.
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I’m excited to see what these amp boards can do. Following in general curiosity and excited to see what you guys come up with!
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Nick and I agree with you 100%, these could be game changers. The possibilities are pretty exciting when you think about it. From what we’ve read, studied, and discussed so far, the ICP3 can be used one of two ways. One is basic/limited programming with it’s Bluetooth app. The second way is directly hooked to the computer via usb which allows the full use of the Sigma software. Until we’ve actually done it, can’t say for sure, but that’s our interpretation so far. Hope to get this project to the top of the list soon. Thanks for checking it out.
BTW, they do offer a couple of mono amps, a 60 watt version and a 100 watt version, both with the DSP option. Unfortunately, the 100 watt wasn’t in stock when I placed my order so I settled for two of the 2x50watt versions for now. SURE said it was in production and would be available again within a few weeks, so it should be there now.
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I wonder if there’s a way to utilize the extra outputs on the ADAU1701 for the mono DSP units. That would make them more useful.
As I’ve thought about this more, the stand alone DSP with extension board, 2×50 watt non-DSP amp for tweeters, and 2×100 watt non-DSP amp for woofers all inside an aluminum case would make a very flexible stereo 2-way speaker design kit. You could pick any tweeter/woofer combo you want, build an optimized box for the woofer, measure, and then easily create a crossover.
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You are definitely thinking along the same lines as Nick and I. If you would like to join in on this adventure, we’d be glad to have you along. Based on Nicks current schedule and mine, I’m thinking we’ll still be a few more weeks before starting to look at it more seriously. That would leave plenty of time for you to place an order with SURE in whatever configuration you might be thinking of.
Believe Nick only purchased the ICP3 and 2x50watt DSP amp, where as I purchased the ADAU1701, the ICP3 and two of the 2x50watt DSP amps. I’m also kicking around the idea of integrating these with one of the ICE amp modules for a later project.
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It would be fun to join, but for now I’m going to have to pass. While managing a new job, temporary apartment, and other ongoing projects, I don’t think I can take on a new project. This is something I will be following closely. I am very interested in this for a future project of living room speakers for the living room in the new house. Current rough idea is 1″ Peerless corundum tweeter in SEOS 8 with 8″ SB ceramic in an MLTL.
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That is all I bought right now. But once I figure out Sigma, then I will be buying the rest. Then working with some of the Icepower boards on hand. To see what I can come up with. I would be cool to run a 200watt integrated subwoofer in a powered tower with a powered mtm on top running at 50watts or so.
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I was looking at the Wondom DSP unit, and I realized that it requires two extension boards for a 2 in 4 out configuration. After doing some more searching, I found what could be a great option for an ADAU 1701 2 in 4 out DSP on the cheap. Just add 4 channels of amplification, and you’re all set. They even have a 4x 100w amp that can power the DSP board.
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Have run into something a bit perplexing on the Sure amplifier. The attached photo is with no DSP applied, just a test measurement on the tweeter with and without a passive crossover. Three amps were used on the same tweeter and same crossover. The black lines are from an Icepower 125asx2, the blue lines are from a Dayton APA-150, and the violet lines are from the Sure amp.
Notice how the Ice and APA-150 amps line up almost perfectly both ways. Yet the unfiltered response of the Sure shows the top end dropping off. Weird thing is the filtered response on the Sure amp didn’t mimic the other two amps. It actually lifted the area around 13.5K and tilted the rest of the response down from there. What the heck is going on with the top end of this amp?
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@kevin-kendrick – just found this thread. I think I have an answer for why it boosted around 13k then dropped off. On some cheaper amps, you may not make it to 20,000Hz without any drop. Just the nature of the choice of components in an amp. To compensate for this, it would make sense to boost in an area where you can obfuscate the effect of the roll-off as you approach 20,000. The high end roll-off happens with some class D amplifiers.
By chance did you see which amplifier chip was used on the board?
Further, this could be something other than what I just mentioned, it just seems that doing so could explain what was seen. Doesn’t make it less troubling considering you could be honest about the dB drop over 20-20,000 or just define the top end narrower to allow consumers to have an accurate and adequate idea of the performance of the amplifier.
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