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With the current shake-off going on around the country in the tech industry, I found myself in the growing list of laid-off techies one fine Friday afternoon. Bored with designing & developing countless custom software systems and websites, I decided to utilize the opportunity to build something more fun. Right around then, I stumbled upon Toid’s video about building JTR inspired speakers. That video made me realize what I had been missing in my life 😀 I have to have these in my own setup.
My current home theater setup is not the most ideal. For one, it is not a light controlled environment. The audio system consists of 6.1 JBL Northridge series speakers connected to a Sony AVR, with a BenQ DLP projector rendering a 133″ image. While it has worked well for a while, it is time to upgrade.
Enter my home theater build log. I will be posting regular updates and pictures/videos here of the progress.
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The Goals
- Build a dedicated home theater room with complete control on ambient light
- Get rid of the AVR and use separates instead.
- Build 3 JTR inspired “Audience 212” speakers for LCR
- Incorporate Atmos speakers, building a 7.1.5 system initially and then add another subwoofer sometimes down the road.
- Use an acoustically transparent screen – 150″
- Upgrade the projector.
The plan is to build all the speakers and the screen myself, using the Toid’s plans of course 🙂
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My basement had a 8×8 sauna which is now demolished to make way for the new Home Theater. I mean who needs a fucking sauna in their home 🙂 Besides, my gym has a Sauna which is what I use most of the time anyways! The Sauna and the hallway to get to the sauna will now be part of the home theater.
The proposed home theater size: 13 feet x 19 feet
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The SB Audience woofer for the JTR 212 has been out of stock for a while on madi soundspeaker store, the link provided in the description of the build video. Luckily, I found a local business right here in Grand Rapids, Michigan that sells them and has them in stock. They are just a few miles away from where I live. Time to visit the store: https://meniscusaudio.com/product/sb-audience-nero-12mwn400d-12-mid-woofer/
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The back wall where the screen is to be placed is coming along well.
The water lines are making the work slightly tricky though. I will need to nail 2x4s on the joists to lower down the ceiling by an inch and a half, to account for the water lines.
The 100th visit to the local Home Depot this month, this time for more construction lumber
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I am personally not a big fan of carpets but the HT room would have a theater themed carpet. Started shopping around and the the first one I like so far:
https://www.flooringinc.com/carpet/joy-carpets-reeling-carpet.html -
Ya’ all
Made some progress, cleaning up the unused electrical outlets & switches. There are no registers in the HT for heating/cooling so putting in some insulation. May install a room heater later if the room is too cold in winters. There are some nice heaters that can be mounted on the walls and have a very low profile.
All the joists now have 2x4s nailed in, to account for the running water lines close to the joists.
The HT room is ready for running some electrical lines as well as speaker wires.
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Hey if you’re looking for some efficient low cost heater I stumbled on “e heat” I was thinking about putting these in my HT and getting rid of the ducts (I don’t want the sound transmission and the duct runs across ceiling killing my headroom).
Anyway these looked promising and way affordable (under $200)Â e-heat
Keep going! Love the pics and updates!
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I could probably get away with 16 gauge speaker wire but decided to go one step up and got 14 gauge oxygen free copper wire from Amazon:
Hopefully, I can get the room all wired up this weekend.
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I am on the same page…. although I have seen recommendations online to use 16 gauge wires if the wire run is less than 90 feet. I was very tempted to pick 12 gauge 😀
I have been blamed for over-engineering solutions before… so trying to play this one safe 🙂
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The other side of HT room, the entrance wall structure is complete. The door to enter the room will be 36″. The original plan was to add a sliding door rather than a conventional door but due to space constraints, I may have to change the plans. If I put it inside of the room, it will clash with the surround speakers to be placed on that wall, behind the seating. If I put it outside, it will eat into the space of half-bath, to be built right outside the HT room (where the bikes are parked in the photos). I may have to put black valvet curtains in place of the door.
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Looking forward to following your progress on this. Be happy to assist when it comes to acoutic treatment when you get to that stage if you want
An idea for the doorway, if you go velvet curtain look into acoustic velvet for the matrerial. E.g. https://www.acoustic-curtains.com/curtains/acoustic-curtains/
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Thanks for the tip on the curtain. I have looked at a couple of options and the link you provided definitely sounds like a great choice. Will surely let you know in case I need help with the acoustic treatment of the room.
Sound Engineer? “Sounds” like a great skill to have 🙂
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Just getting a chance to read through…
Sliding door on the outside wall would work. Not too fond of the flexion of glass in such a pressurized situation.
Could do a folding door similar to what you would find on some closets. It’d call for some customization to stop inherent rattling.
Pocket door would be the ultimate thing for this, but it may call for a slightly thicker wall.
Ultimately, the acoustic curtains may prove to be the quietest, most versatile, and the easiest to install. -
Ah, the pocket door! I wish the idea had hit me a little sooner 🙂 I saw some pocket doors kits at the local home depot but the wall was complete by then. As it turns out, changing things in construction is not as easy as deleting the old code and replacing it with a new module in software engineering 😀 So, I am keeping the wall but the curtains idea does sound appealing and I may have to choose it as the only viable option.
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Thinking about the 7 speakers for the HT setup, I have already shortlisted JTR 212 inspired speakers for the 3 LCR channels.
For the rest of the 4 surround speakers, I am thinking Cinema 10s. They are low profile with only 8 inches depth. Cinema 6 speakers sound like an overkill to me for the surround. What do you guys think? @123toid? Anyone else?
The 5 atmos speakers seem like the easier choice – The dolby atmos speakers covered in this video by Toid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASzI-DAHDFE
Not sure about the subwoofer yet. The subwoofer with 21″ driver that @123toid did sounds like a good option. There are however, others available too. The Devastator by GSG Audio design looks cool: https://shop.gsgad.com/collections/horn-subwoofers
Or, this 24″ beautiful monstrosity by Stereo Integrity https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4QR2Q4wIzgChoices… decisions… !!
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The projector
I am pretty happy with the image quality of my DLP based BenQ. However, I have been looking at other brands like JVC and Sony closely. These projectors offer a lot better contrast and black levels. JVC, in particular, is legendary in terms of its black levels. And then, the new laser projectors are out too in the market.
The new projector for the HT should be 4k with HDR support and I should not have to rob a bank to be able to purchase one. With a complete control on light in the new HT, I may be able to get away with the lower light output of the new projector compared to my current BenQ. The search continues…
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I always loved Ben Q as well. They are typically some fo the best value of there. But you are absolutely right, the JVC blows it away in black level. This might sound crazy, but depending on your budget, you may want to keep an eye out on Facebook Marketplace. You will be surprised at some of the deals you can get. I just saw a JVC 4K near me, for a steal. I ended up not getting it, but it happens a lot. Of course, I do like the idea of getting a warranty with a new one.
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Thanks for the tip. I have been keeping an eye on other sites too like Audiogon. The plan is to grab a JVC 4K or maybe a Sony.
I am a big fan of BenQ too. I think they had some new projectors this CES 2023, including a HT version based on LED – HT 4450i. Looks sweet!
https://www.benq.com/en-us/projector/cinema/ht4550i/buy.html
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Dude I know I’m commenting on a lot of your posts but you and I are building a very similar HT setup and reality same size room and I have been doing TONS of research on a lot of this so I figured I’d share some things that stuck out to me.
For a budget projector this one knocked it out of the park according to recent reviews. It’s a short throw Lazer 4k with all the goodies. Price under $3,000 check it out! Weird name good product (maybe I’m not an expert either) called “Formovie THEATER” here’s a review here on YouTube1 and here on YouTube2Â
Hopefully some of this helps
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@Mdayatmosfail
Please feel free to comment as frequently as you feel like 🙂 Always nice to hear from others who follow your progress… or going through the same experience! I will check out that projector.
My secret wish is to grab one of those JVCs, now that I know the new HT room would be completely light controlled. Lets see 🙂
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The seating plan
I have deviated from the original plan of making two rows for the seating with the 2nd row on a raised platform. First and foremost, we don’t really need that much seating capacity, generally speaking. The two rows would also make the HT room slightly tight, with the first row being too close to the screen. With an acoustically transparent screen planned, I would have to place the screen at least two feet further from the wall, keeping the LCR & Sub nicely tucked behind the screen.
This would essentially turn a 19 feet long room into slightly less than 17 feet. With a 150 inches screen planned, I would hate to sit in the front row 😀 Youthman seems to like his two rows based HT though, using around the same dimensions as mine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AubrsBu-2nU
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Electronic components for dummies like me:
Found a very nice video on Capacitors, for those of you who want to learn about the crossover components: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otQGdPLyF3w
The dude has videos on Inductors too.
You are welcome 🙂
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Started wiring the HT room for the speakers, using the AmazonBasic 14 gauge oxygen free cable. I thought the wire across joists, nailing them to the joists using staples would work just fine:
While it would work, it looks “ugly” and I am not happy. That infamous line from infomercials comes to mind: There’s gotta be a better way! 😀
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As it turns out, the 200 feet long cable does not go very far 😀 I have only finished wiring the rear part of the HT – The rear surrounds, the rear Atmos and the surrounds. I have already run out of the speaker wire. Ordered another roll of 200 feet cable. All hail to Amazon Prime next day shipping.
And now we wait!
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The wiring has been complete. The plan was to start the drywall work this week but may have to wait till later this week. The weather in West Michigan has turned hostile… Or should I say, just normal winter weather 😀
This means I will have to wait to pick up drywall from Home Depot. None of my vehicles is capable of carrying 10 feet long drywall boards so the plan is to rent a van from Home Depot and haul them back home.
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What do you mean I could easily do – Get laid off again or Build Taj Mahal 😀 Sorry, could not help 😀
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The Amp
I have been looking at some of the options available for Amps. The proposed HT will be powered by separates which means I will need to pair the Pre/Pro with amp(s) to power the system. I did look at Emotiva, Monoprice and a couple other options…. until I stumbled upon a little lesser known brand: ToneWinner. There are some good review videos, one in particular done by Home Theater Gurus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiXeIJFbQxQ
300 watts… 7 channels… all channels driven! And reasonably priced too! We have a winner 🙂 Spoke to their dealer in Canada and ordered one. I will need at least two of these amps to power a 7.1.5 audio setup. Lets see how I like the amp before ordering another one. Here is the link of the amp: https://summithifiusa.com/products/ad-7300pa-amplifier
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I have never heard of Tonewinner. I was literally just going to say Monoprice, lol. I am definitely going to start researching Tonewinner. They seem like a real winner (haha).
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Yes, the monolith amp by Monoprice is a great option. Monoprice surely brings the great sounding amps to a more affordable bracket. Quite a few others have also reviewed ToneWinner and have given positive feedback. Check out this video on Spec of Tech channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWgwiPvReOw
If, for some reason, ToneWinner does not work out for me, I plan on working with Monoprice.
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The Speakers placement
The “correct” speakers placement in your HT can make a good sounding content great. While I am not very familiar with how to calculate the placement and where to place the speakers for a great sounding Atmos setup, I am investing some time in learning the tricks of the trade.
It is amazing to see how so many people in the community have created content on YouTube on the topic. Home Theater Gurus channel in particular has a couple great videos on the speakers placement and how to calculate the position/location:
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I say go by Dolbys own atmos speaker placement guide
Click to access atmos-installation-guidelines-121318_r3.1.pdf
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Thanks Josh for sending this. The dude in the Home Theater Gurus video uses Trinnov manual for the speakers placement. And Trinnov is a brand name, I have come to respect a lot for their superior audio engineering. Let me check out the link you provided. Let’s hear from the Horse’s mouth, so to speak 🙂 After all, they created the standards!!
Thanks again 🙂
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I was browsing through some more material on Atmos speakers placement and found this video from Home Theater Gurus, a bit critical of Dolby’s recommendations:
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Ill be honest, I dont have time right now to watch (Im UK so many hours ahead of you) but Im always hesitantly sceptical of people who think they know better than manufacturers of professional industry standards
Having read the Dolby Pro Cinema white paper spec for large scale commercial cinema installations and been in dolby atmos certified mixing studios I can tell you for a fact mixing engineering for atmos (both film and music varieties) are mixing in rooms built to the dolby spec and are mixed with an intention that the final listening environment also correctly scales up or down to match the dolby spec
I actually tend to disagree with many things some home theatre ‘experts’ tell people, the use of bass management being the biggest one as all main, surround and overhead speakers are supposed to be able to go down to 40z (optionally this can be 20hz for main screen channels) with the LFE speaker(s) adding additional low end as an sfx as low frequencies are only really non direction as pure sine waves (not to mention how much bass management screws the phase alignment of a full range sound in positioned in the rear through the crossover frequency range) any sort of sharp transient or complex waveform and even sfx in the 25hz-45hz range can be localised in a properly configured room but thats a whole rant for another thread haha
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got about 6 mintues in and already he has said 2 things that are flat out factually incorrect
1 – he said Dolby dont give you angles in the PDF diagrams and and showed only the top down view diagram on screen
Correction – in the pdf each speaker layout option has 3 different diagrams showing top down view, perspective view and side view with angles for atmos positioning for example 9.1.6 setup on page 48. There is also an entire section of the document of additional placement guidance including angle information for further speakers beyond 9.1.6 (atmos can scale up to 24.1.10), section 4 starting on page 51
2 – He said Dolby say to point the atmos spekaers straight down ‘wasting the good sound’
Correction – Dolby say (quote) “<If the chosen overhead speakers have a wide dispersion pattern (approximately 45 degrees from the acoustical reference axis over the audio band from 100 Hz to 10 kHz or wider), then speakers may be mounted facing directly downward. For speakers with narrower dispersionpatterns, those with aimable or angled elements should be angled toward the primary listening position” In simpler terms this means if the speaker dispersion is wider than 90 degress it can be pointied straight down making installation simpler, if the dispersion is narrower point the speaker at the listeners head. This is on page 7
In the few minutes I managed to watch I can conclude that he has either not properly understood the dolby reccomendation PDF or (I suspect more likely) hasnt actually read the whole PDF and has only seen a few of the diagrams in AVR manuals.
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You might want to watch home theater gurus videos to the end, hey ya never know ya might learn something new. I’m a big a big fan of Steve and his content. That’s probably because I am dumb when it comes to all this audio stuff; but a dumb person can learn new things 🙂 What I gathered from those videos is that there is an optional Atmos speaker placement that you want to hit and it all depends on the angles of your room and your MLP. If you want the real immersive effect that Atmos is intended for you might not want to position a speaker off axis and have it down firing. His logic makes sense but maybe you can can teach me something with your smarts. Because at the end of the day I’d rather stay a dummy that keeps learning than a “smart guy” that you can’t teach a thing to.
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Since I am so new to the field, I do not have enough knowledge to ascertain the validity of the content I am watching. My strategy is to cross reference with as many people as I possibly can. I am also trying to learn the basics as I know this field is so vast that people spend quite a chunk of time learning and understanding it.
Luckily, we have people like yourself to learn from 🙂 Thanks for all the info!
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@Mdayatmosfail
I am very new to Atmos, ideal speaker placement etc etc. I am still in the phase of collecting “correct” knowledge on the topic. My strategy is to learn from the specialists and cross reference it if possible.
While the information provided by Home Theater Gurus makes a lot of logical sense to me, I am currently reading through the Dolby PDF that @Chedwin provided. Hopefully, I will soon have enough knowledge and information on the subject 🙂
My HT room is a newer addition in my basement and I have relative freedom and flexibility in making certain decisions. I will keep posting updates and photos here. As much as I am eager to have a finished product at hand so I can start watching all of my favorite movies all over again in 4K/HDR ( 😀 ), I must admit that the process of planning it and building it is truly rewarding in itself.
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I thought I was all done with the wiring – both electrical and speakers….. until I decided to put in some LED lights – dimmable, color changing, small profile LED lights!!
Ended up running another electrical line to add 12 ceiling LED lights. And ordered these LED recessed lights: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09XM438TZ
Smart device controlled… and an option to add Alexa or Google home support for voice commands! The plan is to run 6 lights each in two rows running in parallel from the entrance wall to the screen wall.
Ok, no more lights after these… Although those LED strip lights look very cool. Maybe add those later 😀
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The Projector Screen
I plan on making the screen myself using Seymour acoustically transparent screen material – Seymour Center Stage XD. Saw some posts on AVS Forums about the XD material being the best among what they tested. I have been exchanging emails with Seymour team to gather as much info as I can and I think I am ready to order enough material to make a 150″ screen.
The Screen Frame
Have not finalized what material to use – metal frame or 1×4″ wooden boards based. Wooden frame would be easy to build and I am leaning towards it.
The Screen Wall
Since it will be an acoustically transparent screen, I will need to place it 2 feet ahead of the back wall, to provide enough space for LCRs and possibly two subwoofers. I may have to build a support structure to hang the screen on. The screen should be lift-able to allow access to the equipment behind it.
I got the idea from Youthman’s video to install Gas Struts on either side of the screen to make it lift-able and hold it up without having to provide any additional support
Also, it would be nice to install a LED light strip around the screen border. There are some nice light strips available on Amazon that can be Alexa/Google home controlled with voice commands.
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While I have seen a few posts about placing Acoustic treatment fabric on the walls and the ceiling, I have not seen too many posts on using black valvet to absorb reflected light. In my own HT, I plan on using a dark color palette for the purpose. The screen wall and the ceiling would be painted black while the other walls would have a combination of blue and grays pattern – have not decided yet.
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Yeah everyone definitely says the darker the color the better but some people are putting like Black Velvet around their screens and on top of their speakers (if mounted in front of screen) to help with light reflections. They say it helps but maybe they’re looking for something that’s not there LOL. I love this build man you’re definitely a go-getter. I’m definitely doing all the same research as you unfortunately I’m still working all the time lol
Hey where did you find that Dolby Atmos PDF? Is there any way you can post a link so the rest of us could have access to it? I think I’ve downloaded it before but maybe yours is different.
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Ha ha 😀 You may be right about people trying to look for something, not there 😀 I love a great HT but putting velvet around speakers? I am not quite there yet myself 😀 Besides, the new speakers I plan on building would most probably will have DuraTex treatment so I am not expecting a lot of light reflected from them.
The PDF link was provided by our good friend @Chedwin in this post: #27368. Here it is again:
https://www.dolby.com/siteassets/technologies/dolby-atmos/atmos-installation-guidelines-121318_r3.1.pdfPS: Thanks for the kind words. Surely means a lot!
PPS: Work is over rated. Next time you step out to work, imagine you could be working on your HT, sipping kick-a$$ black coffee brewed using French Press 😀 Don’t listen to me man 😀
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I need to do those gas struts. I have seen a few people use them. I went ahead and used magnets and they work well, but I still have the issue of keeping it up.
I also used Seymour AV and couldn’t be happier. I ended up doing the easier 1×4 frame, but I think that is really just personal preference. I also didn’t live the idea of cutting all the aluminum. So i completely get that.
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Another great Audio components and speakers kits company css audio is Michigan based. Any of you looking to buy great kits/drivers, please consider Css Audio, a great company and an awesome group of people to work with.
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DIY Acoustic Panels
There are kits that you can purchase to build customizable acoustic panels. One such site I found: https://www.acoustimac.com/acoustic-insulation-materials/diy-kits/acoustimac-do-it-yourself-421
They even have Bass-trap kits that you can build 🙂
I believe @123toid HT build thread has a post about finding the perfect spots to place these panels to absorb the sound.
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Yep thank you for that but I have read that white page, this is definitely a complex situation to work around. Dolby definitely tells you 45° from MPL and centered with your front bed layer. I went back and rewatched the gurus video after I read the White pages and he said in those videos that he’s basing his information off of the Dolby studio PDF not the Dolby home PDF. I’d like to get my hands on the Dolby studio PDF and read that one. Because at the end of the day don’t be built at most to be an add-on to customers within existing surround sound system as well so I wonder if they might bend some of their rules when selling retail versus to the pros. I’ll try to find the Dolby studio PDF but I have no idea where to look lol
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I’m not sure what this Dolby studio PDF is, I’ve never come across it myself, I only know of the home theatre and professional cinema PDFs. The main differences in the cinema guidelines vs home are grouping clusters of surround speakers on the same signal channel to cover the larger areas and more strict frequency response and spl requirements/tolerances . The angles and general layout guidance vs main listening area is pretty much the same just at different scales. If i am able to find a studio spec I will post it here
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If you find something please let me know. I am very curious if there is one. Maybe Dolby don’t record anything in a studio and if they do does it use the same angles as a home theater setup? Studios are typically small areas. Maybe studios are only used to record music and since Dolby is a home theater provider they don’t use a studio? I have no idea I’m probably overthinking it all. I just know that the angles of Atmos and surround sound placement are very crucial and make a significant difference in your surround sound experience. I just want to do it right before I build the room.
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This will be a long post but stick with me here. This is based on a mix of my own experience delving into the creation and mixing side of atmos with the Dolby Atmos Renderer and other info I found digging around the Dolby Professional support docs
A small correction to start, Dolby is not a home theatre provider. They are a fundemental part to the production and distribution of content throughout the entire TV and film industry. Dolby as a company are a technology provider creating inovation in audio and video formats and providing standardisation and certification of both creation and playback systems from 5.1 HT scale to the 400 speaker certified Dolby Cinema in Leicester Square. They dont generally involve themselves in the creation side of content
When I say studio in a Dolby Atmos context I do not mean a recording studio for capturing audio. I am refereing to a mixing and mastering studio for music or rerecording stage for film, these are the room where an atmos mix is done by the sound engineers. These types of rooms fall into 2 size categories, they are near field and mid field. The third category would be large scale cinema which is far field
Near, mid and far field is as simple as it sounds, it desribes the general proximity of the speakers to the listener. Home theatres generally fall into near field with smaller mixing studios. Example of blackbird studio atmos room
Rerecording (aka dubbing) stages are a step up from a HT and aim to provide mixing engineers with a closer representation of how a film will sound played back in full scale cinema. Rerecording stages are similar in size to smaller commercial cinema screens of around 30-40 seats. Example of a rerecording stage from skywalker sound
As far as I can tell based on the additional info supplied in the cinema spec only 2 versions of the speaker placement guide are needed to cover any size atmos system. Home theatre and smaller studios will use the same speaker layouts, the difference being the distance, size and power of the speakers. If you compare the blackbird studio atmos room to the 9.1.6 layout in the HT PDF although the room at blackbird is shorter depth with the MLP much closer to the screen/main LCR other than that they match up very well. Anything larger than that will be built to the cinema spec as the cinema spec doesnt have fixed position diagrams but instead provides formulars for calculating speaker positions based upon room dimmentions and relative positions to other speakers.
If you really wanted to you could use the cinema formulas to work out your own home theatre room but I’m pretty sure you will end up with almost exaclty the same as Dolby already reccomend in the HT PDF, the layouts they provide are based upon the same calculations they have just simplified it by doing alot of the maths for you. For example in the professional cinema spec side surround are mounted above head hieght to cover the whole audince. The angle for overheads is then calculated as 45 plus 1/2 the vertical angle of side surrounds from head height. As home theatre places the main 5/7/9 speakers at head height this makes the overhead angle always be 45.
In summary, unless you have the luxury of building a big enough room to need the formulaic calculations of the professional cinema guidance use the home theatre PDF, just be sure to read it carefully and fully understand the extra information provided in the text sections e.g. that the overhead aiming angle is based on dispertion of the speaker and dolby dont actually say it should always point straight.
Do note that the top down diagrams are not shown in reference to the rooms walls, they show the relation of each speaker to the screen, the MLP and the other speakers. I feel this is a common mistake to make when interpretting the diagrams.
If any of this needs further clarification or you have more questions do let me know, always happy to help as much as I can with my pro audio knowledge
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So I’m interested to get your take on the Dolby studio PDF.
I FOUND IT 🙂
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And there are already noticeable differences between the studio PDF and the home theater PDF with Atmos speaker placement.
Here’s the home theater for pro setup
And here is the setup for the studio placement
I just started reading it but right off the bat it looks like there’s some noticeable differences. But what do I know as stated in an earlier post I’m just a dummy lol
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Well done for finding that
The biggest differences I see are the strict acoustic charateristics requirement for the studio PDF and the variation on speaker angles
I dont think I meet the noise floor or the reverb time for all the frequencies at the moment in my treated post production/sound design home studio with pro studio monitors, it is possible to meet them in a home theatre setting but it will be more expensive and will require input or consultation from an acoustician to do correctly without deadening the sound too much in the wrong places
The speaker angles in each PDF guide will be already taking into account the expected noise floor and reflection pattern of the room the atmos system is installed in, it looks to me that the angle changes may be to alter the reflection pattern angles. The home theatre guide will be expecting moderate to decent treatment of floor and primary reflection points where as the studio guide will be expecting a more professionally designed room treament plan. In a home theatre you want some reflections to remain in the room so you get a larger more immersive sound stage. In a mixing studio we want to only hear the direct sound from the speaker with no room influence at all if possible so we can be 100% sure exactly how the audio file itself sounds in isolation, this type of dry sound environment is often too plain for alot of consumers. E.g. home theatre PDF has side surround flat, they bounce off the opposite wall adding a bit more space and depth to the sound, studio PDF has side surround slightly above tilted down to the listener to bounce the reflection down into the floor to be broken up and scattered around the room
I suspect that the studio PDF layout may be able to result in clearer directionality and sound separation but that does not neccessarily mean better or more enjoyable. Remember we engineers want to critically analyse the audio we hear whilst home theatre owners want to enjoy the film watching experience
At the end of the day you can use which ever guide you prefer but make sure you understand your own goals for your theatre and which of the guides will better suite your goal. Also once you pick a guide to follow stay with only that one for all the speakers, do not mix parts betwen them
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You do have a really good analysis on things, I’m realizing that we’ve flooded poor Nathan’s home theater build with this now do you mind if I PM you some questions about acoustic absorption and reflections. I would definitely love your take on it because I understand what reflections are (I think) but I don’t know when you want to absorb them and when you want to reflect them off walls. So if you got some free time and feel like taking a newbie under your wing and teaching me some things I’d love to bother you a little bit lol
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ha ha 😀 That is absolutely fine!
All this discussion is great info and I am learning a lot. The best thing about this is that I get to put all this knowledge to practical use in the HT. Keep going here guys if you don’t mind! Maybe sometime down the road we can create a Knowledge-based article on this Forum from this speakers placement discussion. I can supply photos too once I am done.
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Sorry @induscreed , got slightly derailed and went on a bit of a tangent
A proper answer to your original question on correct placement, I stand by my answer to use the Dolby home theatre PDF. Although I have issue with home theatre gurus slightly lacking understanding of the dolby home theatre PDF and view his criticism of it as flawed, he isnt off base with the angles he showed on the whiteboard, you just dont need to use the studio PDF to get those angles
As we have found all 3 PDFs use largely the same range of angles adjusted slightly for the expected acoustic environment, you can follow the home theatre PDF and the speakers will all be in the “correct” placement. Pay close attention to written details on pages 7, 8, 9 and use the angle number ranges more than absolute positioning in the diagram on page 42 for your particular speaker layout
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You are absolutely fine @Chedwin 🙂
I am learning a lot from all this discussion and it would help me make the HT sound better than I could do without knowing all this info.
As a token of my appreciation, you guys are welcome to do a “John Wick” marathon in my HT 😀 The Pizza and the world famous and our pride Founders’ Beer on me 🙂
I hope I can wrap all this up soon enough.
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Like we say in India, distance is nothing but just a state of mind 😀
Fair enough! But if you ever make it here… 🙂 I am assuming that you have access to all the cool audio equipment from the US to purchase? Probably shipping would cost lots more but you could order anything from here online, correct?
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Fair enough 🙂 And thanks for sharing the knowledge here with the rest of us. Much appreciated!
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I went through those pages in the PDF and I feel like I am growing more confident in the overhead speakers placement. Thanks for sending that PDF.
I will mark the speakers locations on the ceiling and will post a diagram/picture here for your feedback.
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The Projector Purchase
The projector was delivered. I was able to purchase a JVC NX7 which came with a spare brand new JVC lamp. Now if only the HT was ready for it to be ceiling mounted 🙂
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I got it from AudioGon
The NX series of JVC projectors are available anywhere between $4K – $6K on that site. I saw an Epson 6050 listed for $2100 there not too long ago. It only had a couple dozen hours on it.
HTH
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Absolutely! Will post my impression here once the projector is up & running. I have invited a couple guys here to check out my HT in person once it is complete. If you happen to be in West Michigan, you are welcome to stop by and check it out too 🙂
This unit has been calibrated before it was shipped so I am very excited to watch some HDR 4K content on it. Oh the wait !! 😀
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The drywall boards have been acquired and the room is all set for drywall work. The plan is to finish drywall work this week, including mud, sanding & finishing.
The paint work would start next week with the ceiling paint going first. The idea is to finish the ceiling and then install the LED lights before painting the walls.
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I am not planning any soundproofing but acoustic panels are definitely planned. I believe @123toid HT build thread has a couple of posts about finding the perfect spots to hang them. I will look at them closely once I get there. Right now, it feels like there’s a lot of work to be done 🙂
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Looks like the ForMovie Theater projector was named the top short throw projector by Projector Screen team:
https://www.projectorscreen.com/blog/2022-laser-tv-showdown-ultra-short-throw-projector-shootout
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Ya I was down the rabbit hole one night and stumbled across this. It’s a new product from that company and seemed to check all the boxes for my theater room needs. My only hesitation is that it’s a new product from an unheard of company, maybe this splash there making in the industry is something to jump on B4 the product quality and price start to match up. DECISIONS!! haha
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33″ Subwoofer… Two of them… for the home theater 😀 I guess I have to listen to them in person to appreciate them. 21″ or even a smaller 18″ sized driver seems perfect to me, at least for my HT size – 13′ x 19′
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Re-assessing the projector placement, the AT screen and the screen size…
It looks like I may have to reduce the screen size to 133″ since I plan to make a false wall at 2.5 feet from the back wall, to account for LCR & two subwoofers. So far from what I have seen, the smallest box size is 24 inches deep for a decent sub woofer. This simply means that I need to allow for little over 2 feet to be able to fit my subs.
The projector would be hanging two feet away from the wall too. Recalculating it all for a 19 feet long room using Project Central calculator:
https://www.projectorcentral.com/JVC-DLA-NX7-projection-calculator-pro.htm
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The drywall work
I sooooo underestimated all the work related to hanging drywall 😀 The ceiling in particular was a real pain but luckily I had help. As it turns out, they rent out the drywall lift tool that makes doing drywall ceiling work a lot easier.
Things you don’t know until you are all done 😀
The mud work would start this week. Hopefully, I can finish the mud & sanding work comparatively sooner.
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Did you have to get a 20 amp breaker installed for your two 21″ subwoofers? I am contemplating getting at least four of 20 amp breakers to power two Amps for the speakers as well as the two subwoofers.
Thanks
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The Projector mount & Primer/Paint work
After spending a lot of time with mud and sanding work, the HT room is now ready for the primer work. I was able to install the Projector mount on the ceiling. Since the ceiling beams were exposed, it was relatively easier to build support for a 44 lbs projector. I ended up getting the Chief Mount designed for JVC NX series projectors.
Took a while to understand how the mount should be installed on the ceiling but it’s installed now. The frame should be able to handle the heavy NX7 easily.
Pictures coming!
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Progress update
The primer work is complete. Time to start painting the room with a dark color palette. The plan is to paint the ceiling first and install the LED lights. This will eliminate the need to work with temporary lighting.
After installing the ceiling drywall boards, I used the hole saw to make round holes to expose the LED wiring hidden behind the drywall boards.
Most of the ceiling will be painted dark grey with a little bit of black as an accent color.
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The ceiling has been painted and the LED lights have been installed. These are smart lights which means they can be operated from a smart device. The app to control the lights even allows creating room profiles where you can pick colors and the brightness level of all the lights individually and store them. I have created a profile titled Home Theater where all the 12 lights turn to blue color with only 20% brightness. Cool!!
The HT room from outside. There’s still work unfinished – sand, prime n’ painting but it is starting to take shape.
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Thanks for the words of encouragement 🙂 The DIY work for the HT room is almost complete. Now I am looking forward to building speakers. I plan on building 4 Cinema 10 surround speakers first and use my existing JBL speakers for LCR just so I can start using the new HT.
The next speakers build would be for LCR – 3 JTR Audience 212s. The Atmos speakers would be the last build.
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The Amp delivery
The 7 channels amp that I ordered from a Canadian dealer has been delivered. The make is ToneWinner and it is 300 watts per channel, all channels driven. There are a few reviews out there on YouTube of ToneWinner amp with consistently good words.
With a 12 speakers system (7.1.5), I would need two of these heavy monsters. I am starting out with one, use it to watch some content in my new 7 speakers setup (3 JTRs and 4 Cinema 10s) to test out how it sounds.
When I start the Atmos speakers build, I would order another ToneWinner or maybe a Monolith 200w x 7 from Monoprice.
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The in-wall banana binding posts
Now that major construction work is complete, I am now working on wrapping up all the smaller tasks like installing banana binding posts for the speakers. I ended up ordering in-wall binding posts from monoprice. These are currently 50% off their regular price. Why does it always happen right after my purchase 😀
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=3324
After installation:
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Screen Delivery
The 133″ acoustically transparent screen material was delivered today. I ended up purchasing screen material from Seymour: their Center Stage XD material. I had Seymour precut it at an angle of 10 degrees (max angle possible for my screen dimensions). Seymour recommends cutting the screen material at an angle to avoid moire effect that can be caused by acoustically transparent screens. You can read about it more here: http://www.seymourav.com/screensDIY.php
The original plan was to build a 150″ screen but I had to adjust the size after taking into account the projection distance between the projector lens and the false wall for the screen.
My screen is 16×9 aspect ratio. I was very tempted to pick 2.39:1 but we mostly watch Netflix/Amazon prime content and play video games.
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Progress update
The concrete floor is all washed with soap and water and is now completely dust/dirt free. The false wall is also erected and the front of the boards are painted dark black.
The room is now ready for carpet and hooking up the audio equipment. I will mount the projector after the carpet crew is done with their work. While I wait for the carpet to be installed, I plan on building the 133″ AT screen.
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Screen Frame assembly
The screen frame assembly is complete. I built the screen frame for a 133″ screen (16×9). I usually do the 45 degrees miter cut to join the corners but this frame was built with butt joint. The frame would be behind the screen fabric so I am not too worried about making it look pretty.
I used Kreg jig for pocket holes to join the boards. I used 1 1/4″ Kreg jig screws, the recommended length for .75 inches thick boards. The screen boards are 1×4, actual dimensions 0.75×3.5. I like using pocket holes joinery for the hidden joins.
Sanded the joins to make them perfectly smooth.
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Bad News: Water leak in the HT room
It’s been raining a lot lately here in West Michigan. Right after all the painting work was complete, I noticed that there is a water leak – The first time I have noticed it in that part of the basement. Quite frustrating!!
I wish the leak had occurred before I erected the drywall and did the paint work. At the same time, I am glad I found it out before the carpeting was laid down on the floor! Imagine the damage!
I will need to postpone the carpeting work and get the leak fixed. This means I won’t be able to meet my deadline of April 15th to make the HT room functional with new pre/pro and amp but old JBL speakers.
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Thanks @Chedwin
I may have to cut the wall to figure out the spot where the water is coming in from outside. There is a concrete foundation wall behind the leaky HT wall (the left side wall in the picture below) and I suspect that the rain water is penetrating the foundational concrete wall.
There was no leak before. I am trying to be positive about it but it is very frustrating indeed 😀
Possible solutions include pinpointing where the water is coming in from outside and getting it sealed. I may also have to paint the concrete wall inside, with a water sealant paint.
Oh well!
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4 surround Cinema 10s build
While the home insurance team figures out the best possible way to clean up the mess, I am starting to work on the four surround speakers for the HT. I chose Cinema 10 based on the recommendation by @123toid. Ordered the 4 Celestion TF1020 drivers from the site: https://www.sweetwater.com/
The company is located in Indiana and may I say – what a great bunch of guys to work with. Someone from the Sweetwater gave me a follow up call to make sure that everything goes smoothely. I would highly recommend purchasing your audio equipment from them.
The 4 drivers arrived today:
Does not happen to me often that I open the package and find little treats 😀
Unfortunately, one of the drivers was damaged and is going back for a replacement
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The compression drivers & Wave guide delivery
Looks like the Parts Express also decided to deliver the two compression drivers and wave guides today 🙂
The Parts Express does not have all four compression drivers in stock so I purchased two for now. Looks like I am building two of the Cinema 10. Will keep an eye open for the inventory at Parts Express or maybe try to find the compression drivers elsewhere.
The compression drivers are surprisingly heavy for their tiny size! I ended up purchasing the 1746 variation of the compression driver which eliminated the need to buy the adapter as the wave guide can be mounted directly on the 1746: https://parts-express.sjv.io/RyxDZg It saved me 15 bucks each for every driver. Thanks for the tip @123toid
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Some of the parts for building the speakers are out of stock. I noticed that for Cinema 10 as well as Audience 212 build. More often than not, the main ingredient – the drivers are out of stock and are slated to be back in inventory after several weeks.
I wonder if it is worth looking for replacement drivers and the corresponding crossover parts?
Thanks
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Yay! Looks like the site is back up and running.
There have been some new developments & I have been not been able to put in as much work in my HT room lately due to professional commitments. Nonetheless, I am currently working on my Cinema 10 surrounds and they are coming along nicely. A couple of parts are out of stock so I may have to wait a while before I can wrap up cross-over assembly work and seal the boxes.
The leak in the HT room has been dealt with. Now I have to put the new drywall in place and then finish sanding/painting work.
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Building the Surrounds – Cinema 10s
I switched gears and spent some time building the four surround speakers for the HT room. I chose Cinema 10s and documented my build process in this thread: My Cinema 10 build log
Unfortunately, due to the water leakage I have a lot of repair work in the home theater room before I can start working on the screen as well as other speakers and sub woofer.
This weekend sounds like a great time to start!
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