Blog Forums DIY Speakers and Subwoofers What Speakers shoudl I build for a Cultural Center – Please Advice!

last updated by David 2 months ago
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    • #26195
      David
      Participant

      Hello.  we are building a cultural center with a space for small theatre and indie filim projection.

      Which speaker configuration would you advice (From Toid’s DIY speakers options of course)

      The dimensions of the room in feet is 42L X 23W X 16H (feet)

      We are powering this with a TW AD 3700 2.0 7 Channel  7 X 300 @80 omh

      Processing with a AT 300 16 Channel Pre Pro

      I am thinking of having 2 subwoofers due to the size of the room and powering them with small two channel Amp.  To liberate the 7 channels of the TW AD 3700 for all the sound and detail that I can pull out through a 7.0.  This sound like a good idea?

      Just to let you know, I am not in the USA, I am in South America, and we have a friend travelling to Florida and bringing back the parts, so any and all advice we can get is very much appreciated.  That way we can buy and have this delivered ASAP.

       

      Thank you All!

      • This topic was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by David.
    • #26212
      Josh Evans
      Participant

      Couple of questions to better understand your needs

      I presume these room dimmentions are in feet? (Altough Toid(Nick) is in the USA there is a decent international membership who use metric so its usually best to specify units every time)

      Is this the amplifier your using? https://www.summithifi.com/products/ad-7300pa-amplifier

      If it is it can only do the 300@8ohm single channel driven. All seven channels together drops that to 180@8ohm

       


      Josh Evans, Professional Live Sound Engineer, High End Commercial AV Install Technician
      • #26309
        David
        Participant

        Hello.  Indeed the dimensions are in feet and will edit so it’s clear for everybody.

        Yes, this is the amp we intend to use https://www.summithifi.com/products/ad-7300pa-amplifier

        Haven’t bought anything yet, do you have a suggestion?  We have to move fast and we decided on that one because we thought the specs were good enough and because of the price.

        Would love to hear your thoughts as far as the speakers you think would fit our needs.  Again, we have to move fast so any and all advice is very much appreciated.

        Thank You! and look forward to read your thoughts

         

    • #26310
      tvor-ceasar
      Moderator

      I’m going to defer to Chedwin’s (Josh’s) advice here.

      I’d like to add in my 2 cents worth, just looking at what 123Toid has designed and what is currently available here in the States.
      Of the actual designs available, either for purchase or free, there are few choices to be made, mainly due to parts availability. You can go with either the Soundstage 15 or the Cinema 6 for LCR and surrounds, and for subs the ISO100 is a possibility, though that supply of drivers is low (9 available as I write). If you look back through some of the discussions, you can find some other subs available, but you’d have to check supply availability.

      Other options are not currently possible because drivers are on back-order or completely unavailable.
      The reason I don’t look at any of the smaller designs is they aren’t meant to fill a room of that size. You need something large enough and efficient enough to do the job well.

      Enough of my thoughts. Josh, you’re up!


    • #26313
      Josh Evans
      Participant

      I know I’m going to go against everything the forum stands for with this answer but honestly in this instance I would advise you are better getting active PA speakers (or maybe large studio monitors) than building your own.

       

      If I were to fill a room that size using my normal choice of d&b audiotechnik PA speakers Id be using 2×8″/1×1.4″ cabinets capable of 400w rms and 132db@1m with amplifiers capable of 1600w rms.

      It is very surprising how quickly sound pressure can drop off as distances get bigger and I’d be very concerned with smaller speakers/amps keeping up with the range dynmaics theatre and film contains at sufficient SPL to fill that size room

       

      Of toids speakers the soundstage 15 is the only one I would be willing to recomend for this use case but you would need  bigger amplifiers than the one you are currently looking at e.g. multiple PA amps not a HT multichannel amp.

      The problem with this is the cost.

      For example for the same price as 7x soundstage 15 and 1x AD3700 you could get 7x active PA speakers of approx $550 per speaker. You can often find 700w 10″ 2 way active yamaha PA speakers for $399. The same idea applies to subs as most active PA brands provide matching subs for most of their speakers

       

      Pretty much every country has some sort of PA/music technology store where you can source these types of speakers more locally than getting DIY parts from USA, many allow you to listen and compare before you buy to make sure they are correct for your purpose

       

      Another big reason to consider PA speakers over DIY is manufacturer support and warrenty. These are not an issue when picking speakers for personal use in your own home but for a public venue this should also get some consideration from you.

       

      The processor however looks fine for the job and can still be used as you intend if you swap to active PA speakers

       

      I know this is not the answer you came here looking for but I honestly think it is the best solution for your community at this time.


      Josh Evans, Professional Live Sound Engineer, High End Commercial AV Install Technician
      • #26316
        tvor-ceasar
        Moderator

        Josh,

        “I’m going to defer to Chedwin’s (Josh’s) advice here.”
        And now you see why.

        I agree that the 15 would be the only one to possibly consider. But at just $300 (in quantity) for the drivers alone, you could find something similar with warranty and support at a comparable price once you add in all the other bits and pieces, not to mention the amps truly required. Plus, a consultation from a local professional in the field would be invaluable.

        Yes, it would be a great achievement to say we built this by ourselves from the ground up, but sometimes it’s the long term view you need to see, especially if the initial people involved become un-involved for any reason.


    • #26315
      123toid
      Keymaster

      Chedwin going against the grain 😁 Seriously, I think all the suggestions given are good. I’m a fan of using the Soundstage 15 as front channels and using the Cinema 10 or Soundstage 15 as your surrounds. Both of those are designed for a wide soundstage to help cover more seating area.


    • #26318
      David
      Participant

      Thank you so much for all the thoughtful input you are giving me. Here an off topic but related comment to insist on my position.

      I did neglect to tell you that we are located in Buenos Aires Argentina, where understanding the economy is equal to understanding the existence of parallel universes. We would need at least 2 bottles of Jack Daniels and a very good disposition to get through that conversation.

      Just to give you a reference,  the JBL EON 715 which retails for US 600 in the USA, here in Buenos Aires, retails for US 2000. YES, not a mistake, more than three times the US price.  A Klipsch R-80SWI that retails in the USA for US 336, here in Buenos Aires retails for 1000 dollars. To buy something equal to the Soundstage 15 here, we would have to pay between 4500 and 6000 US.  It is far, and I mean Far, cheaper for us to fly to MIami get the parts bring them back and build everything here, than buying retail brands here, plus PA speakers are usually pricier.  Importing as an individual is a nightmare. Customer and warranty support can take months to get resolved because usually it means shipping items back to the US or wherever, because there is very little local service and parts etc.

      Plus, there are no stores where you can go and test and compare speakers. There are very high end stores where they have a few speakers that you can listen to, but no store has the kind of in store stock needed to have a comparison listening experience as you guys enjoy in many places in the US.  No store has that kind of in store stock because buying brand speakers is a true luxury, that very, very few can afford.

      So, we have to figure this out in a different way (btw, I am laughing right now because as I write this post I see how ridiculously high our hopes are, but, Oh Well!!!)

    • #26320
      David
      Participant

      So!

      I am going follow the one advise you all gentlemen agreed on, the Sounstage 15 and am thinking of building 6 of those.  DINAs?  Which one would be thes best option of the ones Toid has plans for?  Charlie suggested ISO100  and seems a good option. would I need two of these?

      Josh! When you suggest using multiple PA amps, are you referring to power amps like the Crown XLI 1500 and “bridging” them together?  and then using a speaker selector like PYLE PSLSW6 to get all the speakers powered? Or, areyou referring to rack power amps like the Crown TC8150, or the Ashly ne 8250?  (Where the price difference is quite large)

      I am still on time to make better choices so again, any and all advice is very much appreciated.

       

      Thank You!

       

      • This reply was modified 2 months ago by David.
      • #26324
        Josh Evans
        Participant

        What Im suggesting is instead of 1x 7 channel amp that can do 180w per channel use 4x 2 channel PA amp (like the crown XLI 1500) and wire each speaker direct to an amp channel, no selector or bridging needed.

        The XLI 1500 is 330w into 8ohm (soundstage 15 is 8ohm IIRC) which although slightly lower than I would say is ideal it is very much a better usable range. If you can get a similar amp that can do 400w+ into 8ohm that would be better but only if you can find one at the same price. If a higher power amp is too expensive 4x XLI 1500 is absolutely usable and vastly bettert than the 7 chanel HT amp would have been

        Continuing on my currrent path of suggesting not Toid’s deisgns (haha) for a DIY subwoofer have a look at https://www.eighteensound.it/en/resources/suggested-designs/ They are a speaker company that have a few reference enclousre designs available for free. That may give you a bit more flexibilty on the sub design if driver availabilty for Toids is a problem. Id say 2 of the 18sound single 18 subs should be enough for the room size


        Josh Evans, Professional Live Sound Engineer, High End Commercial AV Install Technician
      • #26326
        David
        Participant

        Josh.

        This is very good advice, I looked into it and I believe you are right, it will be far more efficient for what we need, to have a multi amp set up. It will also give us far more flexibility to create sound “zones”  by managing the gain individually by amp, and by being able to input specific sources of sound to individual amps.  Yes, this may be a bit low tech, more manual, but we will have a set up far more open to create and design at the budget we have available.   The cost may be a bit higher, but not by that much.

        I am thinking of getting the Crown XLi 2500 which gives me 500 into 8 Omhs, of course, I have to shuffle my budget and see if this is possible, but I am also considering getting only three, and getting the fourth one hopefully in a few months. That extra output may be a good investment for something that is going to be used a lot and high efficiency is key for sound quality and peace of mind.

        So thank you Josh!  Do appreciate your extra input and your time!  Would love to buy you a cup of coffee if you have the option.

        Toid’s, Buying the plans for the Soundstage 15 and for the Cinema 10.  The wait for the parts of the Cinema 10 is not that bad, and in the mean time we can build the Soundstage 15 and start setting everything up. This Forum is Very Helpful! Thank you!

        I will be back, then, to share how great is everything going!

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